Keep your speed up.

[meanstreak]

If an air traffic controller asks you to keep your airspeed up while below 10,000' can you go above 250kts. I fly with people every other week and I bring up this question to see if anyone knows the answer. I get different verdicts every time. I'm told in Houston and some other airports it is approved, but I still don't know because I don't fly into that airport. I'm not exactly sure where in the AIM I would look. Well, I actually don't have my AIM anymore but I wouldn't be able to find it in there anyway.

 

[DoubleDown]

The regs read that no pilot may exceed 250 knots unless authorized by the administrator. That would be authorized in Houstin because the "adminstrator" says its OK. I find the confusion comes from the fact that we are allowed to exceed 200 knots in Class C and D, but it reads "unless authorized by ATC". So short answer; you can never exceed 250 knots below 10,000 feet. However, Houston and a few other airports are trying something new, but I don't know how they tell you that. i.e. appoach plate.....NOTAM? Hope that helps.

 

[SSDD]

Houston is the only place in the US that has such a program. It has been in effect for about 6 to 8 yrs. It was NOTAMed all over the place back then. On departure the controller will say something like "speed is a your discretion," or this real cool guy with a thick mexican accent: "Speed, we don't need no stinking speed."

On arrival its more like 210KTS from about 20 miles out.

 

[AvJunke]

I've often heard different responses to this question as well. FAR 91.117 begins, Unless otherwise authorized by the administrator,

Does ATC not fall under the category of administrator? If your instructed to hold 255 to the marker for spacing, I would think that you are so cleared. Thoughts..............?

 

[SSDD]

An individual controller is NOT the administrator and can not authorize you to exceed 250 below 10,000' I can guarantee you that you will not be assigned a speed higher than 250. They may wish that you'd go faster than 250, they may tell you to keep your speed up, or go as fast as practicable, or something along those lines, but they will not issue a speed faster than 250.

That's ground for decertification, on par with loss of separation.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Yea, Houston is the only approach authorizing no speed limit below 10,000ft and that is on departures only.

 

[flx757]

If a controller asks you to "keep your speed up", he is simply asking you not to slow down early or unecessarily. He wants your best forward speed, within legal and operational limits.

It does not give you carte blance to exceed the 250 kts below 10,000 limit.

 

[tarp]

The only exceptions I know on the East Coast are Houston and the JFK controllers using the airspace beyond the 12-mile limit.

 

[blott]

I have heard a few aircraft in the MCO area ask for "waive 250 kts speed restriction" and the controllers have said yes. but these were military aircraft, I think....

B

 

[acaTerry]

Heard a NY controller ask someone for 310 below 10,000....
and it wasn't Aeroflot either

 

[sabreliner]

Max speed below 10,000 is 250 except in the case of a/c whose operation requires higher airspeeds (or around IAH.) The examples that some to mind are obviously military fighters, and the DC-10/MD-11 a/c. Sitting on the J/S of the Mighty Dog, the crews explained that very often at their higher weights the "clean" speed will be around 270 or so. So, they can exceed 250 below 10,000 with out any consent from the controllers. This would apply to any a/c that was found during certification to require such high speeds.

 

[DoubleDown]

Military Speeds

From what I understand, since military aircraft are public, not civil aircraft, they do not technically have to follow any airspace or airspeed rules as they have thier own regulations to follow. However, it is general operating procedure to follow the FAR's unless they need to break them.

 

[pony251]

Military Speeds

Doubledown,
Military aircraft have to follow all the same restrictions and FAR's that civilians do. Any aircraft flying in US airspace is under the jurisdiction of the FAA. There are letters of agreement with the FAA for speed waivers in some cases. These apply mostly to fighter type aircraft. It was my experience that as long as you didn't bust 300 kts no one would hassle you. I would not try this flying around the NE corridor. We could deviate for safety of flight if necessary. I know plenty of violated military pilots who wish they were not under the control of the FAA. Military ops in a MOA, Warning Area,or MTR are not governed by the same altitude/airspeed, aerobatic restrictions as the civilian world. This airspace exists for that exact purpose. When I was on the carrier in international waters, it was anything goes, Many a Pakistani fishing boat received impromptu airshows.

 

[Dizel8]

Sabreliner,

Not sure about the Big MD and exceeding 250 is totally true. You are correct in stating, that some large airplanes requires higher speed than 250 clean. Some of the DC-8's I had the pleasure of flying had maneuvering speeds in excess of 250kts at high gross weights, however, we always requested higher speeds from ATC, who would grant it. While under those circumstances you may exceed 250, one still requires ATC clearance.

Of course, now I went and this tidbit from FAR 91. So, I may perhaps have to agree with Sabreliner. Read for yourself:

"d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed."


However, one cannot disregard the 250 speedlimit below 10k unless it is due to an emergency, aircraft performance or as in the case of HOU, where it has been specifically approved. One area where one can exceed 250 below ten is outside controlled airspace where no country has juristiction, examples would be more than 12 miles off shore. In other words, int'l airspace.

That just my two cents

 

[hmmm]

SSDD
Member

Registered: Mar 2002

Flown: Most General Aviation

Civ/Mil: Civilian

Ratings: ATP B737, CL65, EMB120, SA226/227

Current Position:

Total Time: 17,000


You are wrong they are the administrator.

I am an FAA Designated representative of the administrator.

Controllers are the administrators of the regs.

FAA Inspectors are administrators of the regs.

If the controller clears you to do a 300 feet per minute climb or descent at any altitude or to do a high speed descent or climb of over 250kts below 10000 they have cleared you to do so.
Just make sure the next controller knows the previous one cleared you to maintain that speed.

hmmm... OUT

 

[DoubleDown]

Thanks Pony251

Pony251,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had always wondered about that and I'll be sure to share that knowledge with my students in the future.

 

[SSDD]

hmmm,

This issued has been discussed before in this and other forums, including DOC's website. I have also talked about it with some of the FAA types I deal with, I thought I had a pretty firm understanding of the regulations, however, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I don't have a problem with that.

But, what is your point? Why do you have to bring up my qualifications? Why do you have to be an ass about it?

I didn't attack anybody, just providing an opinion as I, and many others understand the regulations.

 

[Dieterly]

Administrator means the Federal Aviation Administrator or any person to whom he has delegated his authority in the matter concerned

Not sure if that means "the every day" pilot and/or controller, don't think it does.

 

[hmmm]

Diueterly wrote "Not sure if that means "the every day" pilot and/or controller, don't think it does."
-----------
No.... It doesn't mean every day pilot... The pilot is an "operator".

A Controller is an "administrator" of the regs..... like you wrote "any person to whom he has delegated his authority" .... "The Administrator"




I am an FAA "Designated representative" of the administrator.

That means I am a "deignated representative" of the administrator........ Because I am an I.A. That is meant to show differences between administrator, representative and owner/operator.

Controllers are the "administrators" of the regs.

FAA Inspectors are "administrators" of the regs.

The understanding trained to me by the FAA is that an operator can do anything he wants to do within good judgement unless the regs say he can't. If the reg says he can't... he can if he gets a waiver to the reg.

I am just a stupid red neck but I have been involved in the regs since very young. They are very clear cut if you know how to read what, if, and, but, or, commas, apostrephe's, colons, semi-colons, and etc. mean.

If you are cleared to do something by a controller you are cleared to do so by the administrator.

 

[WrightAvia]

From what I understand, since military aircraft are public, not civil aircraft, they do not technically have to follow any airspace or airspeed rules as they have thier own regulations to follow.

Anybody remember the big stink they made about those fighter jets that were flying in formation, out of Maryland I believe? They got scattered because of visibility problems and wound up busting some airspace around the White House and the TCA's around D.C. Happened a few years ago.