KCM Policy

[waveflyer]

You've never had a trip begin with a one leg deadhead? Commuters don't need to get to work or get home? You don't need to make your flight when you go to training?

Really? Jane and joe is a good reason? I'm sure they'll get over it when they see the badge. That's just for cutting, the badge gets you to the crew line and once that far I usually just take my place anyway. My bigger issue is having to comply with all the liquids and shoe nonsense after they see a badge because I'm not wearing my $22 cheap white shirt with epaulettes. There are a 1/2 dozen reasons I travel for SWA legitimately and throw on the uniform just to placate the TSA

<soapbox>^^^^^

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I wonder if the Stews will ever thank us? (sarcasm inserted)
What's the odds on one of them sheeples screwing this up for all?

 

[waveflyer]

I wonder if the Stews will ever thank us? (sarcasm inserted)
What's the odds on one of them sheeples screwing this up for all?

You know, my cousin is one and I think about this too..
Way too many with prescription drug habits and too little invested in the career to have them ALL keep it together

 

[Tripower455]

For over a decade! This question has not been answered.
13 years now.... Ridiculous

A decade? The "security" eyewash show starring flight crews has been going for almost 3 decades.........

 

[CA1900]

A decade? The "security" eyewash show starring flight crews has been going for almost 3 decades.........

And all because a fired ticket agent killed a plane full of people. Doesn't make any sense at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

 

[Tripower455]

And all because a fired ticket agent killed a plane full of people. Doesn't make any sense at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

Exactly......

 

[waveflyer]

A decade? The "security" eyewash show starring flight crews has been going for almost 3 decades.........

I don't mind going through regular security. It's this idea that I should have different security procedures in place because I'm wearing a uniform that's asinine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that particular part started with the TSA and was ratcheted up with the liquids.

 

[kf4amu]

I don't mind going through regular security.

I do, because it's pointless for us.

 

[Tripower455]

I don't mind going through regular security. It's this idea that I should have different security procedures in place because I'm wearing a uniform that's asinine.

I'm not sure what you're getting at....

You have issues with the asinine way that asinine procedures are being implemented? The logic of screening the only employees on the airport that don't need a weapon to "take over the airplane" is asinine. The uniform/no uniform, liquid/no liquid BS is just icing on that cake. Zero logic behind it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that particular part started with the TSA and was ratcheted up with the liquids.

I couldn't tell you, since I've been screened as a passenger maybe half a dozen times in 11 years.

Since the entire idea of screening flight crews as passengers (while letting the "trusted employees" waltz in the back door) trips my logic CB, I don't pay attention to what's going on in The Greatest Security Show on Earth.

 

[tomgoodman]

The logic of screening the only employees on the airport that don't need a weapon to "take over the airplane" is asinine.

Supposedly, a Government official once admitted in a private conversation: "We know that uniformed crew members with an ID pose no security threat, but we found that visibly screening them has a beneficial effect on passenger compliance with the program."

 

[SIG600]

I wonder if the Stews will ever thank us? (sarcasm inserted)
What's the odds on one of them sheeples screwing this up for all?

I actually had a couple on a flight, discussing something to the effect of "Pilots have never done anything for us."

I asked them if they ever noticed the ALPA logo on the KCM sign, and they went silent.

 

[Tripower455]

Supposedly, a Government official once admitted in a private conversation: "We know that uniformed crew members with an ID pose no security threat, but we found that visibly screening them has a beneficial effect on passenger compliance with the program."

Yeah, the eyewash thing is well documented. Still no basis in logic if actual security is the goal, and not just the illusion thereof.

 

[Nado]

Supposedly, a Government official once admitted in a private conversation: "We know that uniformed crew members with an ID pose no security threat, but we found that visibly screening them has a beneficial effect on passenger compliance with the program."

So the general public appreciated seeing the guy about to fly them cross country spread eagle against the wall with blue gloves down his pants? How does that make sense?

I have always joked, pilots going through security is like a cop going through a metal detector on his way to work, right before he straps on his gun. No sense at all.

It is 2014, 9/11 happened 13 years ago. What would you say if I told you it would be 2027 for security to evolve for pilots to have effective security? That is the same time frame we are working from for KCM to be online today. Incredible.
Now, imagine if the Delta guy smuggling guns had bad intentions? A handful of terrorists with all the guns they want... I don't think the TSA could have designed a more ineffective security system if they had wanted to with respect to airline employees.

I can't decide if it is gross incompetence or criminal negligence at work...

 

[waveflyer]

Well said nado

I'm gonna steal that analogy

And you are right about the delta guy

 

[Tripower455]

So the general public appreciated seeing the guy about to fly them cross country spread eagle against the wall with blue gloves down his pants? How does that make sense?

I have always joked, pilots going through security is like a cop going through a metal detector on his way to work, right before he straps on his gun. No sense at all.

It is 2014, 9/11 happened 13 years ago. What would you say if I told you it would be 2027 for security to evolve for pilots to have effective security? That is the same time frame we are working from for KCM to be online today. Incredible.
Now, imagine if the Delta guy smuggling guns had bad intentions? A handful of terrorists with all the guns they want... I don't think the TSA could have designed a more ineffective security system if they had wanted to with respect to airline employees.

I can't decide if it is gross incompetence or criminal negligence at work...

Exactly spot on, but 9/11 wasn't the impetus for pilots and FAs being screened as passengers. PSA 1771, (Dec. 1987), where a disgruntled, recently fired GROUND OPS worker committed mass murder by taking a weapon through the back door at LAX. He boarded the same airplane he knew his boss was on, and shortly after takeoff, shot his boss, entered the cockpit, shot both pilots, kicked the airplane into a dive, then shot himself. The airplane broke up over Paso Robles.

The "solution" this problem was the SIDA program and the requirement to relinquish airline ID when leaving an airline job for whatever reason. Partially due to the way that the SIDA program was implemented, pilots and FAs were required to go through passenger screening at most places. The eyewash factor was another reason for screening flight crew as passengers. Having easily identifiable, "authority" figures (flight crews) subject to the same "security" procedures as the passengers, helps appease them somewhat and is another reason that we've been subjected to it for almost 30 years. Pure eyewash with no positive effect on actual security.

Ironically, ground ops folks were not (and still aren't) required to be subject to passenger screening.

They've been talking about a "universal SIDA" program for flight crews since at least the early '90's, but until KCM (which is nice but still not the same), nothing was ever done about it.

 

[waveflyer]

Trip, obviously we all know about the crash-
But I didn't know the security background of PSA 1771
Thanks for that
Universal SIDA would be great but would require individual airports to give up completely their autonomy to the federal government regarding flight crews. I see how it gets complex constitutionally, but it isn't an excuse. And yes, KCM is a good step in the right direction

 

[Tripower455]

Trip, obviously we all know about the crash-
But I didn't know the security background of PSA 1771
Thanks for that

No problem! Lots of the younger guys don't know the history and having always been subject to passenger screening at work, seem to have less of an issue with it than us old guys that remember when we were trusted employees and entered the "secure" area like every other employee.

It was (and still is) infuriating that due to the actions of a ground ops employee, flight crews have to be screened, while ground ops employees continue to waltz in the back door unchecked.

Universal SIDA would be great but would require individual airports to give up completely their autonomy to the federal government regarding flight crews. I see how it gets complex constitutionally, but it isn't an excuse. And yes, KCM is a good step in the right direction

This is the excuse they've been giving since day one. A program COULD have been easily implemented for flight crews when the SIDA stuff started, but it simply wasn't a priority, mainly because the eyewash component was too valuable for the politicians to pass up.

 

[HowardBorden]

No problem! Lots of the younger guys don't know the history and having always been subject to passenger screening at work, seem to have less of an issue with it than us old guys that remember when we were trusted employees and entered the "secure" area like every other employee.

It was (and still is) infuriating that due to the actions of a ground ops employee, flight crews have to be screened, while ground ops employees continue to waltz in the back door unchecked.



This is the excuse they've been giving since day one. A program COULD have been easily implemented for flight crews when the SIDA stuff started, but it simply wasn't a priority, mainly because the eyewash component was too valuable for the politicians to pass up.

I very much miss the good old days when we could waltz through a turnstile with the other "trusted" employees. Somewhere it really went sideways with regard to pilots. The one group that needed to be trusted the most since there is direct control of the aircraft in flight somehow became the object of a search for prohibited items. It really makes no sense.

 

[Tripower455]

I very much miss the good old days when we could waltz through a turnstile with the other "trusted" employees. Somewhere it really went sideways with regard to pilots. The one group that needed to be trusted the most since there is direct control of the aircraft in flight somehow became the object of a search for prohibited items. It really makes no sense.

It's never been about security, just the illusion of it..... Even now, there's very little stopping even a casual terrorist from a repeat performance of 9/11.

 

[737tanker]

On my first trip to Canada, this was prior to 9/11, I started to go through security just like we did in the U.S. The screener directed the crew to bypass security and said "Flight Crew don't have to go through security. In Canada we trust them."