Jumpseat

[SDdriver]

Can anyone give me any idea of when offliners can expect to be able to ride in the actual jumpseat again?
I sit everyday hoping there is progress being made in this area. Mainly because it is very difficult to j/s because loads are really high on the carriers that I j/s with. I wish you all were getting the old ticket prices also, but hey I guess a full plane is always better than an empty one.
I try to keep up with current events as far as opening the J/s back to offliners, but this board is about all I have. Any opinions or fact would be appreciated.
Fortunantly our J/S satyed open to offliners and I am always happy to help someone get home or to work.

Thanks for any help..

SD

 

[Boeingman]

Our JS rep thinks it will not be back for the forseable future.

 

[Rook]

Rode the jumpseat (cabin) on an Eagle SAAB the other day the CA told me that it's not a federal issue on allowing offliners to j/s it's the company. If that's the case then it most surely...sucks. Hopefully it will change again. I hate 2 leg commutes.

Rook

600' AGL Autopilot on
'WHEW!'

 

[SDdriver]

Hmm..Can anyone clarify if it is a company issue or if it is still FAA?

I always thought it was FAA mandated.

SD

 

[Crusty]

Offline J/S is a Federal issue. The largest hurdle is still the positive identification of authorized flightcrew members. Progress is being made. You now have some carriers/codeshares with the cockpit seat available through their carriers approved means of positive identfication and employment status. The technology is out there but the costs associated wth implementation and management are still at issue. Everyone should thank the Jumpseat Task Force for the effort they have put forth to get our rides back.

It is going to be a while before we see it restored as we all knew it it the old days.

Thanks to ALPA, FedEX, IPA, SWAPA and all the independent carriers jumpseat reps for their tireless effort in getting our jumpseats returned. It is greatly appreciated by this CRUSTY OLD Bast_ _ _!

Crusty

 

[NEDude]

From ALPA

This was dated Aug 21.

ALPA National Jumpseat Update

By Capt. Bill Dickey (Aloha), ALPA's Jumpseat Committee Chairman

"This has been a very frustrating summer for ALPA members who commute off line.
Airplanes full of passengers push back with empty cockpit jumpseats while we
scramble to find another flight with room in the cabin for a jumpseating pilot.
Some of our members are contacting ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, telling
him to fix the problem. If ALPA were running the government, we would have no
problems.

One problem we have had is dealing with the Transportation Security
Administration. We are hoping to see a constructive change in that agency with
the appointment of a new undersecretary, Adm. James Loy (USCG, Ret.). He is
promising to engage ALPA and the rest of the airline industry in discussions,
suggestions, directions, and goal setting; something the previous director did
not do.

Earlier this year, we participated in a number of meetings with FAA Flight
Standards. Those meetings focused on the methods to be used in satisfying an
off-line pilot's identification/employment verification. That guidance will soon
be disseminated to our principal operations inspectors as a change to their
Inspectors Handbook. However, we will still need to get the TSA's approval.

The FAA will allow airlines to implement either electronic, computer-type
verification systems or a basic telephonic system. A telephone verification
system is in place now with Alaska and Northwest. However, telephonic
verification is not seen as a viable mechanism industrywide.

The vice-presidents in charge of our flight operations meet quarterly as the
Operations Council of the Air Transport Association (ATA). They have asked
tasked their IT people to develop a system that will allow the different,
proprietary computer systems our airlines use to communicate with each other.

A test of that system will be conducted soon with American, Continental, FedEx,
Southwest, and UPS participating. A preliminary test has already been conducted
between two of those airlines, and the ID verification came back in 7 seconds.
When the broader system test is conducted and verified, it will be demonstrated
to the TSA.

While ALPA has worked for many years toward implementing an industry-wide
universal access/smart card system, the deployment of such a system is not in
our immediate future. The ATA-developed system may be our best means yet of
regaining off-line jumpseats while we continue to pursue an acceptable,
industry-wide system that can ensure that we grant cockpit jumpseat access to
only those individuals who truly belong there."

Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact your jumpseat
committee.

 

[SDdriver]

Wow, thanks for that post! It mentioned that NW has the phone system available. I mainly J/S on NW. How does that system work or how could I take advantage of that system, or could I even take advantage of it? Sorry for all of the questions and being very ignorant on this subject, but a lot of us freight guys are kinda left out of the loop when it comes to this stuff. BTW if there is anyone that is curious about my company's route structure for riding J/s PM me and I can give it to you. Thanks again.

SD

 

[Singlecoil]

The Northwest phone system is only for Alaska Pilots as far as I know, not even Horizon Pilots can use it even though they are a code share carrier as well.

 

[SDdriver]

Ahh..ok thanks..oh well maybe soon things will turn around.

SD

 

[flight-crew]

I personally don't think ALPA has done enough on the whole Jumpseat issue. Yes, they were quick to get jumpseating back for riding in the back. But it has now been almost 1-year since 9/11, and guess what? You still can't jumpseat on other airlines. On the route that I commute on, the flight is overbooked 98% of the time. I repeat, not full... overbooked. And there are always a ton of non-revs on top of the overbooked revenue passengers.

The bottom line is that the FAA now requires "Positive identification and employment verification." I honestly have no problem with that and I think it's good. It makes the whole jumpseating system more safe. The problem that I do have is when ALPA has millions of dollars in the bank and they haven't set up a system of ID and Employment verification. I guess they think that they are going to wait for someone else (like the airlines) to spend money on a system for ID and Employment verification. Yeah right! Jumpseating is a priviledge for all commuting pilots. Do you think the FAA or the airline management gives a crap when we are stuck for another night in an airport? Therefore, ALPA should be the one spending the money on some type of ID and Employment verification system. Whether it be via telephone or some other electronic means (swipe card, etc.), they should have had a plan of action and carried it out by now. If they have to set up a whole department and hire manpower for it, then so be it. But in all fairness on there part, the last guy who was head of the TSA was a complete idiot and apparently he wouldn't even work with ALPA on many issues (guns was a big one). Hopefully this new guy will be good. But I guarantee you that no ALPA member who is a commuting pilot would mind in the slightest that there dues money was being spent on a system that made there commute easier and allowed them full jumpseating priveledges.

What can be done at this point? Write your ALPA rep ASAP and tell them that ALPA needs to get offline cockpit jumpseating back now, and that they need to be the ones implementing the system. If they have to set the system up themselves and spend a little money, then OK. That's what you pay dues for.

 

[ifly4food]

How would non-commuting ALPA members feel about their money being spent on other people so that they can have the "luxury" of living out of domicile? After all, you "choose" to commute, right? (don't shoot me, I'm a commuter).

ALPA is full of internal conflicts, and this is one of the biggest./

 

[727PAA]

flight-crew. What would you like ALPA to do? The J/S coordinators have been working this issue since 9/11.

The ATA has stepped in and proposed a database system to solve the verification issue. They have also worked with the FAA/TSA to propose their own system. It looks like the FAA/TSA are leaning to the ATA proposal, althought ATA says it will take them some time to get all their carriers up to speed and inputed to the new system.

ATA has said that they do not want the telephone verifications system as they believe it will be cumbersome for each individual gate to be calling a carrier to verify employment.

How should ALPA get all carriers(non ALPA included) to give their employee lists to them to start your proposed system. How should ALPA mandate that ALL CARRIERS use this system when it is completed..and who will update it every time someone is hired/fired??? You got the answers???

JMHO...as a J/S coordinator working the issue..

 

[flight-crew]

Look, I'm not a j/s coordinator. I'm not in the whole jumpseat loop like all the coordinators are. But I do know that it has been 1-year and offline cockpit jumpseating still hasn't been restored. That's a fact. It probably isn't ALPA's fault, but they should be putting some hard-core pressure on this issue in all the right places.

And for the airlines with crappy domiciles, the majority of pilots do commute. So I don't think you would have many complaints from ALPA members when ALPA spends money on the jumpseat problem. And even for the non-commuters, I think that they would very much appreciate the ability to cockpit jumpseat on any airline for personal travel..... like to go visit family, or a trip somewhere.

 

[rightrudder]

I, as a comuter, would not be adverse to paying to maintain such a system. Perhaps those who want to participate could pay a fee to help support such a system. $100 bucks a year or something like that to have jumpseat access.

 

[727PAA]

Funny we should discuss this.

The ATA is running a test on their system the 16th of Sept.

The jumpseat commitee is briefing the TSA folks on September 12th in an attempt to get the Security Directives relaxed.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

From ALPA today...

Welcome to ALPA FastRead for August 15, 2003

Jumpseat Test Officially Approved

The TSA has officially approved a six month "pilot program" that will re-institute offline jumpseat access for pilots. This test program will be known as the Cockpit Security Access System, or CASS. The formal approval of CASS by TSA removes all of the regulatory restrictions that had been placed on offline jumpseat after the September 11, 2001 tragedy.

Before the program is again up and running there are some other steps that must be accomplished. For example, a contract with ARINC to run the proxy server for the CASS must be finalized. This should take no more than two weeks. Once this is accomplished each airline will be required to make some in-house adjustments to their computer reservations system in order to make it compatible with the requirements of the CASS. The length of time to accomplish these changes will vary from airline to airline.

Once each airline has met these requirements and made their system CASS compliant they will then have to "end to end" test their system with the other airlines participating in the CASS. This should be a relatively straightforward hardware/software issue. Once these tests are completed each airline entering the CASS will be required to adopt their respective Ops Specs to accommodate the requirements of the CASS. This should only require a written change to the Ops Specs documentation. The final approval for the system will be through each respective carrier's PSI, which the TSA has stated will occur provided all of the above requirements are met.

Once the system is up and running (probably mid-September for the carriers whose systems are ready) the following procedure will apply to pilots desiring to utilize an offline jumpseat. The pilot will present him or herself at the offline carrier's gate, provide the agent with his or her valid airline ID, a valid US passport and a PIN number issued by his or her respective airline. The gate agent will enter this information into the computer and send a verification of identification query to the pilot's airline through the ARINC proxy server. Once the response is received, the gate agent will verify that all of the identification credentials presented by the pilot matches the information returned by the airline, and the pilot will be allowed access to the cockpit jumpseat.

More information about this program will be provided as it is received, and pilots should contact their respective MEC Jumpseat Coordinators for information specific to their individual airlines.

 

[furlough-boy]

I personally don't think ALPA has done enough on the whole Jumpseat issue. Yes, they were quick to get jumpseating back for riding in the back. But it has now been almost 1-year since 9/11, and guess what? You still can't jumpseat on other airlines. On the route that I commute on, the flight is overbooked 98% of the time. I repeat, not full... overbooked. And there are always a ton of non-revs on top of the overbooked revenue passengers.

The bottom line is that the FAA now requires "Positive identification and employment verification." I honestly have no problem with that and I think it's good. It makes the whole jumpseating system more safe. The problem that I do have is when ALPA has millions of dollars in the bank and they haven't set up a system of ID and Employment verification. I guess they think that they are going to wait for someone else (like the airlines) to spend money on a system for ID and Employment verification. Yeah right! Jumpseating is a priviledge for all commuting pilots. Do you think the FAA or the airline management gives a crap when we are stuck for another night in an airport? Therefore, ALPA should be the one spending the money on some type of ID and Employment verification system. Whether it be via telephone or some other electronic means (swipe card, etc.), they should have had a plan of action and carried it out by now. If they have to set up a whole department and hire manpower for it, then so be it. But in all fairness on there part, the last guy who was head of the TSA was a complete idiot and apparently he wouldn't even work with ALPA on many issues (guns was a big one). Hopefully this new guy will be good. But I guarantee you that no ALPA member who is a commuting pilot would mind in the slightest that there dues money was being spent on a system that made there commute easier and allowed them full jumpseating priveledges.

What can be done at this point? Write your ALPA rep ASAP and tell them that ALPA needs to get offline cockpit jumpseating back now, and that they need to be the ones implementing the system. If they have to set the system up themselves and spend a little money, then OK. That's what you pay dues for.

1. It's been almost TWO years since 9-11

2. I agree with ifly4food on this one. I think ALPA has much bigger fish to fry than wasting precious time and resources on getting cockpit jumpseats back. I'd like to see them working on a solution to industry problems regarding scope and protecting the profession. ALPA and most MEC's waste negotiating capital on commuter policies and jumpseat agreements that only benifit the pilots that choose to commute.

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

ALPA and most MEC's waste negotiating capital on commuter policies and jumpseat agreements that only benifit the pilots that choose to commute.

It's not wasting negotiating capital at all. It's getting something back for the 64,000 ALPA members out there, that should have never been taken away. And no, it benefits everyone- not just the commuters. You're telling me that you never jumpseat anywhere? A lot more than 50% of those ALPA members who pay dues commute, and they pay ALPA to work for them (3% of their gross paycheck). So ALPA will take care of everyone's interests because it's a democracy.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

ALPA and most MEC's waste negotiating capital on commuter policies and jumpseat agreements that only benifit the pilots that choose to commute.

I am one of those who choose to NOT commute. But like many other pilots, I like to travel on my time off. I like to spend as much of that precious time as possible at my destination, not in some terminal hoping for an empty seat. Every plane that pulls out of the terminal with an empty jumpseat means more of my time off spent trying to get a seat on the next flight. This is a huge quality of life issue for many more than just those who choose to commute and in my opinion is one of the big fish I want to see ALPA frying.