JS to HKG

[propsarebest]

I thought that CASS restrictions prohibit off-line pilots from riding in freighter cockpits internationally. Am I wrong?

I believe that's the policy at UPS: No off-line guys internationally, since there is no barrier between the cockpit and the jumpseats--CASS rules.

NOPE... Our airplanes (EV) don't have a cockpit door, so every seat on the airplane is a jumpseat.

 

[highsky]

NOPE... Our airplanes (EV) don't have a cockpit door, so every seat on the airplane is a jumpseat.

Right. Same with UPS airplanes.

I just talked with the UPS Jumpseat coordinator, and she said that CASS restrictions prohibit off-line jumpseaters in the cockpit internationally. Since there is no cockpit door, all seats on the jet are cockpit jumpseats, as you say. Therefore, only on-line guys can jumpseat in freighters internationally.

 

[airgator]

As far as I know, the only US companies that do not allow offline jumpseaters internationally are UPS and FDX. I don't understand the whole cockpit door thing, because Kalitta, Atlas, Southern, and the rest don't have cockpit doors yet they take offline guys.

 

[iaflyer]

I thought that CASS restrictions prohibit off-line pilots from riding in freighter cockpits internationally. Am I wrong?

I believe that's the policy at UPS: No off-line guys internationally, since there is no barrier between the cockpit and the jumpseats--CASS rules.

I don't know about UPS, but at my company offline jumpseaters are certainly permitted to jumpseat on the airplane back to the states. Maybe we do something different than UPS, but we don't have cockpit doors and I have seen with my own eyes offline employees jumpseating on the airplane back into the US.

 

[AV80R]

As far as I know, the only US companies that do not allow offline jumpseaters internationally are UPS and FDX. I don't understand the whole cockpit door thing, because Kalitta, Atlas, Southern, and the rest don't have cockpit doors yet they take offline guys.

That's strange, I've talked to JS coordinators at three different airlines (pax) and they all said that for international jumpseats a cockpit door had to be installed since the ACMs are ONLY allowed to ride in the back (technically jumpseaters turning non-revs).

If there is no cockpit door, all seats on that airplane ARE jumpseats and since riding in the actual cockpit on international flights is not allowed (was told those are CASS rules) – NO offline jumpseaters would be allowed! Those rules apply internationally only.

I have no clue how Kalitta and others get away with that; I think it's great but don't know why TSA cares so much about our jumpseaters and no so much about theirs? Weird...

 

[dojetdriver]

From what a UPS guy said here (or on another forum), 121 airlines (pax OR cargo) apparently fall under a different security requirement than 125/supplemental/ACMI carriers do as far as the whole lack of a cockpit door thing goes. Making it OK to take a JS'er int'l, for the ACMI/125/supplementals.

But that raises the question, in the same thread, a Polar guy said that they operate as a 121 carrier but they are allowed to take JS'ers international, without the cockpit door.

So who knows why UPS/FedEx can't take a JS'er int'l when the ACMI carriers can.

 

[ACT700]

It all has to do with those Nazis at TSA.

I'm sorry, Nazi is such a nasty word in these sensitive times; let me call them the SS.

 

[AV80R]

As of December all background checks will be completed by our friendly TSA (FBI did them in the past). That applies to pilots, flight attendants, gate agents, etc.

I can't wait for the gate agents telling an arriving crew they may NOT take the outbound flight because according to the TSA their names appear on the DO-NOT-FLY list! :laugh:

You think I'm kiddin'? uke:TSA

 

[One Dot Low]

If there is no cockpit door, all seats on that airplane ARE jumpseats and since riding in the actual cockpit on international flights is not allowed (was told those are CASS rules) – NO offline jumpseaters would be allowed! Those rules apply internationally only.

I have no clue how Kalitta and others get away with that; I think it's great but don't know why TSA cares so much about our jumpseaters and no so much about theirs? Weird...

My understanding is that CASS and TSA has nothing to do with international jumpseating. It's all up to the individual carrier policy.

We are not getting away with anything. It's our policy.

But again, in this ever changing aviation industry, I could be wrong.

 

[flynfr8]

International Jumpseat

AV8OR,

It's not that the TSA does not care, it is that UPS and FedEx choose not to exercise a security program that is in place to allow offline international jumpseaters on your freighters. There are several companies (Kalitta, Polar, Atlas, Southern, et al.) that utilize this authorization, and they are FAR 121 carriers.

The pax carriers are a different story. CASS is a domestic-only program at the moment, thus the JSCs are correct, you cannot fly in the cockpit of a pax carrier internationally via CASS. You CAN, however, fly on the above-mentioned cargo carriers because they employ a system, approved/enforced by the FAA and TSA contained within the cargo carrier's AOSSP, that allows them to do this. Since the entire aircraft is considered the cockpit due to the lack of the fortified cockpit doors, such personnel as couriers, animal handlers, contract maintenance, etc would be unable to fly without it. Therefore, to enable these carriers to provide the security necessary to protect the flight crew personnel and payload from any "issues", this program was put in place many moons ago to keep the jumpseat open. CASS makes life much easier in assisting/expediting the required background checks for each crewmember performed before they can ride. FedEx and UPS certainly have the ability to participate, but it is up to those respective companies to exercise the option. Your JSC is familiar with this.

Hope this clears things up.

flynfr8

 

[hkgorbust]

flynfr8 is correct.

CASS is a "domestic only" program that allows access to the flight deck. Another program that KA and some others use is the "Flight Standards Flightdeck Access Restriction" program (FDAR). This program allows access for authorized non-employees to the aircraft for domestic or international flights. There is a considerable effort involved that apparently keeps some carriers from participating.

One big difference is that CASS is a "walk up and ride" deal, but a person requesting transit under FDAR with KA must make the request a minimum of 12 hours (24 hours for the first time), but no more than 72 hours prior to the flight for all of the verifications, notifications and authorizations to be completed.