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Jonathan Ornstien BUSTED!

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islandhopper

Clone War veteran
Joined
May 9, 2003
Posts
718
Here's the conference call HAL is talking about in their lawsuit, http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/7/64457.html listen in at 20-21 minutes.

I sure hope Aloha joins the lawsuit. HAL & AQ can split his preciuous shareholders $300MIL 50/50. The little cocksukcing crook is GOING DOWN!

STUPID STUPID STUPID JO!!! BUH BYE!
 
LXJ31 said:
Could you give us the abstract? I don't have audio on this machine.

Any internet cafes nearby? Sorry I cant put it to text. I dont know how to translate sociopathic stuttering
 
I'm listening to this slimeball talk about how expensive pilot costs are at Comair and other DCI carriers and how he believes he can undercut all of them. This guy will do anything to get flying. His pilots are less senior and get paid sh1t, and he is proud of the fact. What a rat. He probably calls Delta on a daily basis telling them how cheap his pilots are. F'in fabulous.

Are Mesa pilots proud?
 
Well all pilots are pretty much inherently proud, but most Mesa pilots I know don't feel particularly proud of what there CEO is up to, probably it's mostly embarrassment...

But maybe the question is why do you care about Mesa pride? Are you trying to blame the pilots for the state of the company? Or worse yet the state of the industry? I don't think JO filters his decisions through the brain trust of his pilots. And I don't think Mesa's situation has caused the difficulties of regional pilots' life... But you can think that if you want. It's sure nice to have a scapegoat. Kinda makes you feel better, even though it contributes nothing to improving things...
 
That's AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the audio link! Here's what JO said "remember, we had a look at Hawaiian and Aloha while they were in bankruptcy." in response to an investors question about the proposed operation. BUSTED!!

I'm sure that the out of court settlement will be a nice addition to Hawaiian's growing cash reserves!!

BAHAHAHAHAHA!
 
El Ocho said:
I don't think JO filters his decisions through the brain trust of his pilots. And I don't think Mesa's situation has caused the difficulties of regional pilots' life...

BS. Why do you think everyone's newly proposed pay cuts are always addressed by management as Mesa +/- a certain %? If that hasn't caused the difficulties of regional pilots' life then what has?
 
RP170 is right.

Everytime there is a concessionary contract, it has always referred to "MESA +/-"

Nice try buddy, stop trying to cover up. YOU are the one trying to make yourself feel better with the scapegoat.
 
More JO rant....

Article URL: http://starbulletin.com/2006/02/15/business/story01.html

Wednesday, Feb.*****15,*****2006


Mesa Air calls Hawaiian Air afraid of competition


Hawaiian sues to block Mesa from initiating interisland flights in April


Mesa Air Group Inc., the Phoenix-based company that plans to start an interisland airline in Hawaii, blasted Hawaiian Airlines yesterday for a lawsuit that seeks a minimum two-year injunction to keep Mesa out of the market as well as monetary damages.

Jonathan Ornstein, chairman and chief executive of Mesa, said a suit filed by Hawaiian on Monday in federal Bankruptcy Court shows that Hawaiian is afraid of competition.

"I think in a progressive state like Hawaii, very few people will tolerate it," Ornstein said. "The lawsuit is totally without merit. They clearly enjoy a position where they can overcharge, and saw our new fares were half of what they were charging and decided to pull out all the stops to prevent us from entering the market. Given Hawaiian's confidence, I'm surprised they would do that because I thought they would welcome competition."

Mark Dunkerley, president and CEO of Hawaiian, said the airline is not afraid of competition but Mesa unfairly will be able to use information gathered under a confidentiality agreement when Mesa was a potential investor during Hawaiian's bankruptcy.

"We're certainly not afraid of competition," Dunkerley said. "Hawaiian, by almost any measure, is one of the best airlines in the United States and we look forward to the opportunity to compete freely with all comers.

"But there has to be a basic sense of fairness. Mesa agreed contractually that they wanted to have a look at our play book, we gave them our play book and they agreed not to use the play book. Now they want to compete against us with the benefit of having in their back pocket our play book. That's what we object to, not the competition."

In the court complaint, Hawaiian said the confidential information included "Hawaiian's proprietary knowledge of the markets and routes that it serves -- the 'crown jewels' of the company."

The complaint said the information included operating statistics from the beginning of 2004 through the end of 2007.

"In short, Mesa was provided, on a confidential basis, with much or even all of the analysis and information that a competitor would need to build a business plan to compete with Hawaiian in the interisland market," the complaint said.

Hawaiian said Mesa downloaded more than 60 documents containing more than 2,000 pages of information about Hawaiian's business.

Ornstein said yesterday that Mesa destroyed all the information 18 months ago when Mesa was told it was no longer one of the bidders being considered to buy Hawaiian. He said the agreement that prohibits Mesa from using the information expires about the time Mesa would start flying in the state.

But Mesa also had said in early 2004 that it had begun a study to enter the Hawaii market, Hawaiian said in its lawsuit.

Mesa has said it intends to start a new interisland carrier around the beginning of April with one-way fares as low as $43. The airline has long sought to establish a presence in Hawaii and even was one of the potential investors in Aloha Airlines.

Dunkerley scoffed at Ornstein's arguments that the information is dated.

"They clearly thought there was value looking for confidential information," Dunkerley said. "That's why they signed the agreement. They wouldn't have done so if they could have gotten it from public sources."

"The confidential information was used inappropriately as recently as a few weeks ago," Dunkerley added.

Ornstein said Mesa won't be deterred by the suit.

"It won't slow us down," he said. "It certainly isn't going to stop us from coming to Hawaii."

David Banmiller, president and CEO of Aloha, said the carrier does not want to get involved in the lawsuit.

Article URL: http://starbulletin.com/2006/02/15/business/story01.html
 
RJP said:
Mesa Air calls Hawaiian Air afraid of competition

Ornstein said Mesa won't be deterred by the suit.

"It won't slow us down," he said. "It certainly isn't going to stop us from coming to Hawaii."
What a dummy! He reminds me of the guy in this video posted on the mesahub. JO is already coming back for more cracks.

Anyway, you liked the audio, you're going to LOVE the video!

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/433/
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hahahaha I just watched the video again. I think JO is right at step 5 now. I cant wait for step 9.
 
Ive know J.O. since the 80's. All I can say is FRANK LORENZO JR. How much does Mesa pay their F/O's? $1200 a month BEFORE TAX. What a bunch of crap...I hope HAL slams him.
 
I liked the audio, but that video is F***ed up!

Couple of dudes should be going to jail not celebrated. Nice to let yourself get videotaped committing battery.

The whole reason that we have jobs flying to Hawaii is tourism. BS like this hurts Hawaii and our industry.
 
First, Aloha and Hawiian are to blame for some of this. They allowed JO to look at them, plus they had an 18 month clause on the info. So, JO is following the agreement. So stop whinning about this, JO is not busted, just a little more slimmy then the rest. All of your CEO's would of done the same thing.
 
sflax said:
First, Aloha and Hawiian are to blame for some of this. They allowed JO to look at them, plus they had an 18 month clause on the info. So, JO is following the agreement. So stop whinning about this, JO is not busted, just a little more slimmy then the rest. All of your CEO's would of done the same thing.

there's only 18 months in 2 years? where did you go to school?



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Where did two years come from? Hawiian even admitted they knew Mesa was studying interisland stuff. That is thier mistake, let the wolves come into your house.
 
sflax said:
Where did two years come from? Hawiian even admitted they knew Mesa was studying interisland stuff. That is thier mistake, let the wolves come into your house.
2 years comes from hawaiian's statement in the paper:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Hawaiian says the information available to potential investors during its bankruptcy was subject to an April 2004 confidentiality agreement, which barred Mesa from using any of the information for two years, Hawaiian said.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]

where did you get 18 months from? and how is it HALs mistake that JO is violating an agreement? it would have been a mistake if they didnt have him sign it. apparently they think they have a case or they wouldnt be taking it to court.



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sflax said:
First, Aloha and Hawiian are to blame for some of this. They allowed JO to look at them, plus they had an 18 month clause on the info. So, JO is following the agreement. So stop whinning about this, JO is not busted, just a little more slimmy then the rest. All of your CEO's would of done the same thing.

We'll see, but...............

If I see proprietary information and make plans to enter a market based on that information within the time period of the nondisclosure I am competing with inside information.

That is like those who only Blame "W" for 9/11, as if AlQueda wasn't planning the attack before 2001.

It truly doesn't take much logic to see Hawaiian's case. What's your beef to assume that JO is right? He has stated blatant mistruths in the press (ie. HAL makes most of its profit interisland). Of the 2 sides, Mesa has proved to be short on fact. So I ask, why do you give the benefit of the doubt to the liar?
 
You seem to be taking this stuff really personal. We are just having a conversation. Okay, yes the agreement was for two years, and Mesa does not start operations until April. HAL is going to have a very difficult time proving Mesa using thier specific info. And why is Aloha not joining the parade?
 
Well it is personal, it involves my job.

What is your reason to jump in on the side of Mesa when the facts are in doubt yet JO has been caught misrepresenting facts?
 
I am not jumping on the side of Mesa or JO, just like to look at things from the other side of fence sometimes, keeps things interesting. As for your job I hope this all works out for the better. But like my dad told me when he was laid off 10 times in his career at GM. Nobody is looking out for you, you look out for yourself, but you still have to ansewer to god when you die. My take on this whole thing is nobody looked out for Eastern/TWA/PamAm/ACA and a whole bunch of others, so why do we kid ourselves that we are entiltled to job security and that this time or next that it will be different. Reality has shown this is a race to the bottom, just like tech jobs and manufacturing, you have the choice, but someone else will always make the decision. I love flying but I have a B plan.
 
Dude shut up! Noone is whining here, we are just talking about the CEO of Hawaiian and the CEO of Mesa. There is a conflict. This is not a dispassionate investor board. This is a pilot board and it does affect some of us more than others. Get out of here with your plan B lecture. How long have you flown and if you think that anyone isn't aware of the insecurities of the airlines here you are smoking something. WTF is your point?

I'll ask again, why do you give the benefit of the doubt to Mesa? Did you listen to the audio?
 
I like when he talks about the "larger than RJ's concept" JO says narrow bodys would be great, and thinks the pilot group would jump at the opportunity but ALPA would not.
 
sflax said:
You seem to be taking this stuff really personal. We are just having a conversation. Okay, yes the agreement was for two years, and Mesa does not start operations until April. HAL is going to have a very difficult time proving Mesa using thier specific info. And why is Aloha not joining the parade?
How do you know Aloha won't join? I cant see Hawaiian being soooo desperate that they are attacking mesa with a frivolous lawsuit. I think Hawaiian is fairly certain they have a open & shut case. From remarks being made by Dunkerly in the last two days newspapers, it also appears they have somebody on the INSIDE of mesa. Probably somebody who has been horse-fukced by JO one too many times looking for a little back pay / payback.

JO is going DOWN!

There were large selloffs of mesa stock in the day preceding the lawsuit so tell me mesa didnt know this was coming. The whole airline should be shut down and all their execs thrown in jail ala ENRON.
 
No trial just jail. Good thing you won't do anything wrong. Why should Mesa as an business be shut down? The company may not have done nothing wrong, but the CEO might have. Why should that poor ramper loose his job, can he have yours. As for how long have I been in aviation, long enough. And I have worked my way to where I am. No regrets. Why can't I talk about a plan B? My point is, everyone here is upset at the industry, you and myself feel helpless, which is the worest thing to feel. All the CEO's are loving that we harp on each other, it shows lack of cooperation in the Union. Realize your CEO will save his job before yours. Hell, Aloha and HAL asked Mesa to entertain offers for a purchase. And then what would of happened? Yes, JO may or may not pay of this. I actually feel we need to just stop working all of ALPA, go on strike. We can not do this as individual unions. If ASA goes on strike Delta will just let the flying go somewhere else. The only way to stop the down slide is to all go on strike. Simple solution. And I never said that people were whinning.
 
islandhopper said:
How do you know Aloha won't join?

Maybe because that is what the Aloha CEO said in the last line of the article that YOU posted.

"David Banmiller, president and CEO of Aloha, said the carrier does not want to get involved in the lawsuit."
 
Andy Neill said:
Maybe because that is what the Aloha CEO said in the last line of the article that YOU posted.

"David Banmiller, president and CEO of Aloha, said the carrier does not want to get involved in the lawsuit."

You are talking about the same Aloha that never bought new airplanes and still operates 737-200's right? The same Aloha that filed for Ch 11 protection with a day and a half of operating capital left?

I believe if HAL wins, then Aloha will jump in... Why wouldn't they?

GO HAWAIIAN!




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