jetblue

[blahshmah]

Get some help Yaks.

 

[TonyC]

OK, now I know where the balloon is....

There is not any specific stipulation in the JETBLUE AIRWAYS EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT FOR PILOTS that specifically disallows the formation of a union. However, the first numbered paragraph, EMPLOYMENT AND TERM, clearly leaves the impression that JetBlue can terminate your employment (at the end of the five year contract) for no reason at all, provided they simply give you 3 months' notice. So I guess one could speculate that if you're going to organize, plan on either being successful or seeking alternative employment when your 5 years is up.

Interesting.

I can also see how Paragraph 3. D. might influence a pilot's "desire" to organize:

D. Merit Pay. The Airline, at its option, may increase the hourly pay of the Pilot above the minimum hourly rates listed herein based on the Airline’s evaluation of the Pilot’s performance. When and if the Airline increases the Pilot’s hourly rate, the Pilot will be notified in writing of such increase.

Any attempts to organize, or any cooperation with organizers, could be rewarded in the Merit Pay column.

Also interesting....

Originally posted by Skank
The contract stipulates pay rates of $72/hr for captains and $36/hr for fo's.

The Contract I'm looking at shows Regular Rates of $110.49 per hour for 1st Year Captains, and $50.96 per hour for FOs. Max at 10 years are $126.46 per hour and $113.00 per hour.

Originally posted by airbaker
We can't because I believe it violates our non-disclosure agreement on public forums.

From the Agreement:

17. NONDISCLOSURE. The Pilot agrees, during or after the term of this Agreement, not to disclose to any firm or person, including but not limited to other air carriers, any information, except as otherwise required by law, including but not limited to, information about the Airline, or its affiliates and customers, which is treated as confidential by the Airline or an affiliate, to which the Pilot has gained or gains access by reason of the Pilot’s position as an employee of the Airline.

The Pilot recognizes that the disclosure of confidential information by the Pilot may give rise to an irreparable injury to the Airline, which may not be adequately compensated by damages. Accordingly, in the event of a breach or threatened breach by the Pilot of this section of the Agreement, the Airline shall be entitled to an injunction restraining the Pilot from disclosing, in whole or in part, the confidential information defined herein, or from rendering any services to any person, firm, corporation, association, or other entity to whom such confidential information, in whole or in part, has been disclosed or has threatened to be disclosed. Nothing herein shall be constmed as prohibiting the Airline from pursuing any other remedies available to the Airline for such breach or threatened breach, including the recovery of damages from the Pilot. The undertakings in this provision of the Agreement shall survive the termination or ancellation of the Agreement or of the Pilot’s employment.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how the Employment Agreement is "information about the Airline, or its affiliates and customers, which is treated as confidential by the Airline or an affiliate." I see no markings on the Document that would indicate the company considers it confidential. Furthermore, I fail to see how revealing the terms of the Agreement would "give rise to an irreparable injury to the Airline, which may not be adequately compensated by damages."

So, where does disclosing the terms of employment violate the Nondisclosure clause? (Or is that confidential?)

 

[Dizel8]

"The Pilot agrees, during or after the term of this Agreement, not to disclose to any firm or person, including but not limited to other air carriers, any information, except as otherwise required by law."

Pretty much sums it up, I think!

 

[TonyC]

Don't be ridiculous !

"The Pilot agrees, during or after the term of this Agreement, not to disclose to any firm or person, including but not limited to other air carriers, any information, except as otherwise required by law."

Pretty much sums it up, I think!

Not to be argumentative, but that does not sum it up at all. You see, the Agreement does not have a period where you placed one. There is a comma followed by a great deal of descriptive language which qualifies "any information." If the statement actually appeared in the Agreement as you have it written, it would include disclosing the departure times of scheduled flights, the gate from which flights would depart, and the type of airplanes JetBlue flies.

What kind of airplane do you fly? - - "Sorry, I can't disclose that - - it's 'any information'."

Where does this airplane go? - - "Sorry, I can't disclose that - - it's 'any information'."

Well, it's easy to see the absurdity of such an assertion.

To simplify the sentence for ease of understanding, allow me to offer a more accurate paraphrase.

"The Pilot agrees not to disclose ... any [confidential] information ... about the Airline ... which [he] ... has gained ... by [being] an employee of the Airline."

Now, convince me the Agreement is treated as Confidential when it isn't even marked as such.

 

[jetblue320]

OK, now I know where the balloon is....

There is not any specific stipulation in the JETBLUE AIRWAYS EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT FOR PILOTS that specifically disallows the formation of a union. However, the first numbered paragraph, EMPLOYMENT AND TERM, clearly leaves the impression that JetBlue can terminate your employment (at the end of the five year contract) for no reason at all, provided they simply give you 3 months' notice. So I guess one could speculate that if you're going to organize, plan on either being successful or seeking alternative employment when your 5 years is up.

Guess what, they can terminate you anytime they want, period. In the time I have been there, which is from Day One, no one, repeat, no one has been terminated for any single unjust cause unless it was drugs or alcohol. And in the case of the latter, quite a few cases (non-pilots included) have been sent to rehab at no expense or ramifications.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone who does not want to work for JB gives a sh1t about our contract. Let it rest man. If a perspective employee wants to know before he "wastes" his time applying, read it, it's on the web and a child can figure it out.

C yaaa

 

[TonyC]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone who does not want to work for JB gives a sh1t about our contract. Let it rest man. If a perspective employee wants to know before he "wastes" his time applying, read it, it's on the web and a child can figure it out.

C yaaa

I'm not sure why you're all riled up about this. If you'll read the entire thread, you might notice a theme. One guy wants to know why the contract isn't available, another guy says "Yea, why isn' it?" and they're met by a barrage of "It's none of your business" from guys who are supposedly so happy with their jobs. Why so defensive?

The same guy that says "It's none of your business" turns around and explains "forget about a union ... because at the very least your contract will be allowed to lapse and not renewed ensuring there will be no rabble rousers on the property."

That piqued my curiosity - - I looked for the contract - - couldn't UNZIP a file - - looked some more, asked around, and was told a cute story of an engineer and a manager. You know, managers, those guys JetBlue pilots are in love with.

SO, anyway, I get home, Unzip the file, read for myself that such is indeed the case. An unusual 5 year renewable contract. Of course, any employee without a contract can be terminated without cause. That's a risk of being an at-will employee. But this contract allows for termination without cause, and without recourse.

My balloon comment was in reference to the balloon anology - - engineer and manager.

My analysis of the contract was straightforward, and more objective than Dizel8, who apparently thinks he can't divulge the location of the crew base.

So, why the flames? Did I do the interpretation an injustice? Was I inaccurate in the analysis? Did I paint you in a negative light? What's the big deal? I didn't come here to start a fight, I just got interested in a question that was asked, but nobody seemed willing to answer.

Lighten up, willya?

 

[Skank]

Tony, your point is taken, but since it is an individual contract with the company, and not a collective bargaining agreement, it is up to each individual as to how to interpret the language you describe above. I'm sure you can understand the hesitation that some of us feel, especially in light of some of the enlightened comments that we read every day (some of which are posted above).

 

[Dizel8]

No Tony, there are plenty of things I can tell you about jetBlue, including but not limited to bases, aircraft, routes etc. I can even tell you what I think of the company, but my interpretation differs from yours and hey, its is a free country.

Here is a litmus test, why don't you send a request to the company for a copy of the contract and see what they say?

 

[MercuryPilot]

I signed my contract and put it in the mail to Dean on Monday. -There's nothing in it that worried me in the least. To be honest, I felt like I'd won the lottery when I got it in the mail.

More Blue Koolaid please!

MP

 

[TonyC]

Here is a litmus test, why don't you send a request to the company for a copy of the contract and see what they say?

I'm not much into litmus tests - - about all they're good for is determining the acidity/alkalinity of a liquid. Jet Blue could decline to send me a copy of the Agreement for PLENTY of reasons other than confidentiality, so their refusal to do so wouldn't settle this difference of opinion. Besides, I have no desire to do the research to find out who to call or write, and it's probably in some ZIP file, anyway. (<-- humor, OK?)

Listen, I have no horse in this race, so to speak. I'm happy where I am, you're happy where you are, and I'm happy for you. An interseting topic came up on a public forum, I joined in the discussion. I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings, OK?