jetblue

[yaks]

Why doesn' t someone from jb post the employment contract on the airline pilot contracts website?

 

[IB6 UB9]

Here he goes.

 

[English]

What is wrong with disclosing this? It's better for an applicant to have complete information before being offered a job, don't you think? You'll probably weed out lots of candidates who are not what you are looking for by posting the employment contract. Those who don't like it will change their mind about applying in the first place.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I doubt it.

 

[wndshr]

i don't think jb is very worried about the lack of interest in flight officer employment...new hires are being told up to 9000 plus apps on file!

 

[Skank]

It's none of your business, Yaks. Someone considering employment here can see the contract. Your repeated attacks, including calling everyone at Jebtlue an idiot, reveals you agenda. Take your agenda, and your really bad attitude, and insert them ( i ). Good day!

 

[MW44]

skank,

Where would one look to find the contract? Is it posted anywhere? Thanks.

 

[airbaker]

We can't because I believe it violates our non-disclosure agreement on public forums.

Plus, then you'd know our secret handshake and initiation rituals....and I thought my fraternity was crazy!

 

[buttercup]

I've got some pals over at Jetblue and they are pretty happy. Whatever Jetblue is sellin over there Im buyin'!! Must be nice to have a management that treats you with respect!

 

[sandman2122]

Check out "AirlinePilotContracts.com", there are A LOT of contracts there that don't violate some "non-disclosure agreement on public forums. " policy.

 

[80drvr]

skank,

Where would one look to find the contract? Is it posted anywhere? Thanks.

http://www.apapdp.org/oal.contracts.php

 

[yaks]

I thought that since it is such a non-issue you guys could prove me wrong and have the last laugh. Since this is supposed to be an information forum for pilot job seekers, why not give everyone the scoop and let them decide for themselves if this is an issue or not?

 

[furloughed dude]

Give me a break yaks. You must be very jealous...

 

[80drvr]

I thought that since it is such a non-issue you guys could prove me wrong and have the last laugh. Since this is supposed to be an information forum for pilot job seekers, why not give everyone the scoop and let them decide for themselves if this is an issue or not?

Yaks...I posted the link. Go check it out.

 

[Skank]

It is a non-issue, for you. We need to prove what to you?

I thought that since it is such a non-issue you guys could prove me wrong and have the last laugh. Since this is supposed to be an information forum for pilot job seekers, why not give everyone the scoop and let them decide for themselves if this is an issue or not?

 

[colorado418]

Why doesn' t someone from jb post the employment contract on the airline pilot contracts website?

Yaks,
Now that you have the link, and have checked out the contract, what wise cracking comments do you have???

Did you get to the part where we have to drink a half gallon of blue kookaid every day to keep our jobs. Also, I am sure you liked the part where we have to do the tire changes our self to save the company money. But the really good part is where they will buy our house after 3 years of employment and cover the mortgage. Some kind of awesome deal they negotiated when we got the great loan for the airplanes. You know the one... Where we don't have to pay for the planes....


Oh man, was this sarcastic??

 

[yaks]

First my thanks to 80drvr for posting the link to the contract. Why no one from jb would do that is beyond me and part of my problem with them.

Second, while I still have grave reservations about the use of any employment contracts and some specific provisions in the jb contract, there does appear to be some wiggle room although I would not want to foot the legal bill to prove it.

Third, I would like to apologize to the jb pilot group in general (skank, ib6, dlred and a few others excepted since it seems to apply in their case) for my earlier name-calling. My thanks to A320drvr, DGS and the like for renewing my faith in the group.

My animosity generally stems from the fact that when someone asks a legitimate question an infamous few seem to always respond with sarcasm and ridicule, or get defensive and tell people how stupid they are for questioning the jb management.

The AA contract of 03 is a pig any way you dress it up. I feel we did what we had to do to make the company competitive given the current environment, but there is not a lot to be happy about there. Nonetheless I would never belittle anyone for asking about its provisions or having an opinion for or against it. It no longer affects me since I was gone as of 03/04. I have secured other employment (I pulled my jb paperwork after a little research into the hiring practices) and am reasonably happy with my position so don't interpret this as embitterment or anything like that.

Again I apologize to the good guys for letting the toads get to me.

 

[Dizel8]

"Tell him about the employment contract for crappy pay and no chance to have a union to stand up to management buffoonery when it happens (and it will happen). Tell him about the movement to trash the FAR flight time limitations so you can fall asleep at the wheel to make a few extra bucks. There is much to be ashamed of at many airlines but most people are up front about it."

Yaks, not to rain on your parade, but most of your posting with regards to jetBlue comes with a negative slant, so it should not be surprising to you, that people are not jumping all over themselves giving you info. Even this one has that negativity in it:

"(I pulled my jb paperwork after a little research into the hiring practices)"

One must wonder, why jetBlue seems to be a thorn in your side, after all you have no intent of working here.

I think it peeves you, that as a group we are reasonably happy and that we decline to diss dirt on our company. Yes, there are things that could be better, but discussing it here, will not make the neccesary changes.

 

[airbaker]

(I pulled my jb paperwork after a little research into the hiring practices)

Yaks,

Don't take this in any way as flame-bait, but what do you mean in regards to our hiring practices? I'm obviously biased, but I hold Dean and the others on the interview team in very high regard for consistently selecting such a great group of qualified pilots. What were your thoughts?

Good luck with your new job. I hope AA rights itself soon so you can return quickly.

 

[TonyC]

"Tell him about the employment contract ... [with] no chance to have a union to stand up to management ...

I guess I'm a little late showing up for this thread, but that little tidbit caught my attention. I tried to download the contract from the above link, but can't UNZIP anything on the computer I'm on at the moment . Is there really something in the contract that would discourage organization of labor?

I, too, am curious about why it's such a secret. I'm not particularly PROUD of the terms of MY contract, but I have no problem sharing any part of it with anyone who asks. Even if there's nothing wrong, this attitude sure makes it LOOK suspicious.

 

[Dizel8]

No, the contract does not prohibit a union.

As far as the contract is concerned, it is available on the net, it is no deep dark secret. Heck, do a search on Yahoo, it shows up at the top.

 

[TonyC]

No, the contract does not prohibit a union.

As far as the contract is concerned, it is available on the net, it is no deep dark secret. Heck, do a search on Yahoo, it shows up at the top.

Good idea... I did as you suggested.

Yahoo web search for "Jetblue pilot contract"

First 20:
1. APAPDP - Pilots Defending The Profession
2. JetBlue Orders 100 Jets in $3B Contract
3. http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/10_Things_About_Scope.doc (MICROSOFT WORD)
4. JetBlue Airways Case Analysis
5. Delta Furloughed Pilot Web Site
6. ATTENDING AIRLINES
7. 10-Things That Every Airline Pilots Should Know About Scope (PDF)
8. Pilot Employment News
9. Pilot Employment News
10. Globeinvestor.com: Fitch Downgrades Delta Air Lines` Senior Unsecured Debt to `B`
11. JS Online: JetBlue Orders 100 Jets in $3B Contract
12. AIR, Inc.
13. PC Mall Wins Va. Supplier Contract
14. [Iww-news] Anger Building Among Airline Workers
15. jetcareers.com: Think your vote doesn't count?
16. Turner: Institutions: Commentary: Low-cost airlines find the skies are relatively friendly
17. AP Wire | 06/10/2003 | JetBlue Orders 100 Jets in $3B Contract
18. AP Wire | 06/10/2003 | JetBlue Orders 100 Jets in $3B Contract
19. The Jobs Page
20. The Jobs Home Page

Any other ideas?

 

[English]

It's on the apapdp website.

Tony, that would be the first selection in your results string.

 

[TonyC]

It's on the apapdp website.

Tony, that would be the first selection in your results string.

OK... so I do the Yahoo search, I click on the first result, and I get to read the PDP Update for Friday, December 12, 2003. Not helpful.

Yes, the contract appears to be on that website, but as I stated above (in reference to 80drvr's link), it's in a ZIP file that I can't read on this computer.

Still lookin....

 

[Dizel8]

I am sorry TonyC, I told you were it was, but the fact that you cannot zip files, kinda reminds me of this:

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You are between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude.

"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.

"I am," replied the man, "but how did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responded, "You must be a manager."

"I am," replied the balloonist, "how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

 

[TonyC]

Thanks, anyhow Dizel8. I reckon I'll hafta wait 'til I get home.

Until then, perhaps I could find a way to continue this exchange with you so we'll be graced with more occurrences of your Avatar....

 

[Skank]

Posted by Yaks:
Since no jb moron had the balls to answer the mans question which is the only point I was trying to make, I will have to try. There is an employment contract you must sign as a condition of employment. It means you are an employee until the contract is up (5 years) at which time if neither party does anything it automatically renews for another 5 years. The contract stipulates pay rates of $72/hr for captains and $36/hr for fo's. (Currently paying more but not obligated to, which means if tomorrow they decide that is what they want to pay you that what you will get.) Don't know all the specifics since the pilots were either too stupid to read it or too embarrassed to admit some of the other more onerous aspects. I am certain there are a myriad of behaviors which will warrant you immediate dismissal like trying to organize. So forget about a union should you ever decide to contest any policy the management wishes to implement (the current "benevolent" group or any future bunch) because at the very least your contract will be allowed to lapse and not renewed ensuring there will be no rabble rousers on the property.

Another interesting aspect of the pilot group is their attempt to get a waiver for jb to exceed the 8 hours of flying in 24 rule so that they can fly Long Beach turns. I guess thats great for them. They can fly really long days and diminish the safety margin so they can make a few extra bucks and set a precedent for all the other airlines to point to when trying to push their pilots productivity beyond the already marginal rules currently in place.

I am sure there are others but I am getting disgusted with the whole bunch and don't feel like dwelling on it any more. Incidentally, I have never been a finger pointer with regards to any other company (though I do have reservations about a few of the crappier commuter operations) lowering the bar. The business is the way it is and competition will create trying times for every company at some point. But the incompetence, negligence or outright malice shown by jb pilots has inspired my first gesture in their direction.

[B..........is beyond me and part of my problem with them.

Second, while I still have grave reservations about the use of any employment contracts and some specific provisions in the jb contract, there does appear to be some wiggle room although I would not want to foot the legal bill to prove it.

Third, I would like to apologize to the jb pilot group in general (skank, ib6, dlred and a few others excepted since it seems to apply in their case) for my earlier name-calling. My thanks to A320drvr, DGS and the like for renewing my faith in the group.

My animosity generally stems from the fact that when someone asks a legitimate question an infamous few seem to always respond with sarcasm and ridicule, or get defensive and tell people how stupid they are for questioning the jb management.

The AA contract of 03 is a pig any way you dress it up. I feel we did what we had to do to make the company competitive given the current environment, but there is not a lot to be happy about there. Nonetheless I would never belittle anyone for asking about its provisions or having an opinion for or against it. It no longer affects me since I was gone as of 03/04. I have secured other employment (I pulled my jb paperwork after a little research into the hiring practices) and am reasonably happy with my position so don't interpret this as embitterment or anything like that.

Again I apologize to the good guys for letting the toads get to me. [/B]

Yaks,
I'm sorry that you posted the above. How can we have a dialogue with that for an introduction?

 

[yaks]

If you read the first post to the thread "negatives to jetblue" you will find a legitimate question. Here are some of the responses to potracks question before any unpleasantness on my part took place:

How about that folks don't have anything better to do than try to dig up dirt. This post is just like a USA Today article that some schmuck wrote. He found DOT complaints and wrote the whole article about the complaints listed. Let's try to be original...

Yaks, I sell (sniff, sniff) grapes (sniff, sniff) yeah thats it......sour grapes!

No chance for ALPA here, I'm crushed Yaks (may I suggest avoiding those beer bongs and that yaking should clear right up).

Not another (yawn) JB hater and naysayer trying not so desparately to hold his emotions in check. You are right though...it totally sucks over here...I am part of an organized group of non-professionals trying without a doubt to bring down the industry by lowering wages, changing FAR's, etc.

Yaaawn . . . I'm sorry, yaks, were you talking? I couldn't hear, too busy doing my part to lower the profession. Gotta get back to it . . .

I'll see your bite me, and raise you an Inda-ass. While we're on the subject of total jerkoffs...

So you'll have to excuse me if I get a little ticked. Any negativity on my part stems from the animosity shown to anyone who asks anything deeper than "what are the hiring minimums".

Maybe I am being obtuse so lets try a different tack. Say it is 1999 and American is hiring like a crazy. Some major airline pilot- to-be asks the same question about AA and my response mirrors those posted above. Anybody think AA pilots would be perceived as bastions of integrity?

 

[IB6 UB9]

But that is not the case. Your true colors have shown through too may times and I think you have established your distaste for our company. So what do you expect? Go ahead...bash away...you sound like you lack education and I get a kick out of your ignorant comments.

 

[colorado418]

But that is not the case. Your true colors have shown through too may times and I think you have established your distaste for our company. So what do you expect? Go ahead...bash away...you sound like you lack education and I get a kick out of your ignorant comments.

I second, third and forth the above comments. Yaks, you have kind of shown what you think of jetBlue from the get go. Don't try to cry a sad story now. If you want to know more, apply. If not, let it go.