JetBlue & TSA hmmmmmm....

[NYRANGERS]

You have to wonder how many lawers are out there thinking.................. 5 million pax times around $200-$500 each ticket. Breach of contract......and class action.........then take 10% to 30% of that number.....etc etc........

Although I imagine the gov't could help out jetBlue by limiting the ability to sue. Who know's it will be interesting to get the whole story from the CEO.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

[Whistle!] This place is getting hostile!

I wonder: since this was done in secret, I wonder how many other airlines have done the same thing and we don't know it?

I would take it further....how many businesses (especially banks and credit cards) have done this? It became "law" in April of this year the guberment can have complete access to your medical and pharmacy records. Strongly speculate there is a lot of information sharing between guberment institutions. All in the name of peace and safety of course.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

what begs the question though is, why did JB sell out out to the feds in the first place? and gave them the data?

 

[NYRANGERS]

JetBlue Airways began sending out apologetic e-mails Thursday to customers who are infuriated that the airline gave 5 million passenger records to a defense contractor investigating national security issues.

The form letter, provided by JetBlue to Wired News, confirmed a Wired News story that JetBlue turned over the names, addresses and phone numbers of its customers in September 2002 in response to an "exceptional request from the Department of Defense to assist their contractor, Torch Concepts, with a project regarding military base security."

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The e-mail was carefully worded to say that data was never provided to a government agency or used for airline security testing, that the sole copy had been destroyed, and that the Torch presentation was developed without JetBlue's knowledge. The company also expressed regret and promised never to turn over passenger information again without court order.

The letter will not be placed on the company's website, but will go out under the name of JetBlue's CEO, David Neeleman, said JetBlue spokesman Gareth Edmundson-Jones. The e-mail closed with, "I am saddened that we have shaken your faith in JetBlue but I assure you personally that we are committed to making this right." Jones added the company was "flabbergasted" when they first saw the Torch Concepts presentation.

The Torch presentation (PDF) shows that Torch investigated the viability of airline passenger profiling, by combining the JetBlue data with Social Security numbers, income levels, number of children and vehicle ownership that Torch purchased from Acxiom, a company that sells consumer data.

The potential system would check passenger data against private, commercial databases and government watch lists to prevent terrorists and suspected violent felons from boarding airplanes. In the process, it would code every passenger with a risk level from green to red.

Bill Scannell, a privacy activist who brought attention to the report, said the apology was "outrageous."

"I thought they would announce that they would take out full-page ads in major newspapers in every city they fly to (saying) they would fully investigate the matter and file lawsuits if necessary to find out what happened to their customers' data," said Scannell.

At least one of JetBlue's customers has already spoken to lawyers and privacy groups to discuss a possible lawsuit against JetBlue.

Joshua Gruber, a frequent JetBlue passenger who works for database company IX Solutions, sent e-mails to friends and family members after reading reports of the data transfer. The number of people who responded with outrage to his e-mails grew quickly to about 100, and at that point, the group decided to seek legal advice.

"I was in the north tower (of the World Trade Center) on 9/11," said Gruber. "I understand that security is important, but this is not the way to do it. This is off the deep end. This was the wrong way to go about making us secure."

"I'm pissed off enough for 100,000 people," said Gruber, whose actions led Scannell to set up a website for those affected to sign up for a potential class action lawsuit. "I love JetBlue, watching the Food Network from one coast to the other blows every other airline out of the water, but I'm going to be flying anybody else until they do something about this."

Even when told of JetBlue's new e-mail, Gruber remained unconvinced.

Torch Concept's lawyer, Richard Marsden, said his company still had the airline data and was in process of destroying it. Torch Concepts, whose technology attempts to predict future events such as stock market swings or terrorist attacks on military installations, was working on the project for an Army study, Marsden said.

Marsden, on behalf of his client, send a letter to Bill Scannell on Wednesday demanding that he remove a copy of the company's presentation from his website. The presentation included the Social Security number, address and phone number of a JetBlue customer.

The copy was not, however, on Scannell's server; it was a mirror hosted elsewhere. On Wednesday, all traces of the document and presentation were removed from the website of the organization that hosted the February 2003 conference where Torch presented its paper. A Google cache copy disappeared on Thursday.

The Department of Homeland Security's Chief Privacy Officer, Nuala O'Connor Kelly, whose position did not exist last September, said the incident should never have happened, though her initial investigation showed this study was not under the auspices of the Transportation Security Administration.

"I plan on being squeaky clean on the testing of CAPPS II," said O'Connor Kelly, who said the event should be a wake-up call for everyone in the Department of Homeland Security.



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[Daedalus]

It appears that momentum is building for a grass-roots effort to gather enough upset jetBlue passengers to bring legal action against B6. The link below is to a website that instructs people on how to be added to a potential class-action roster. JBLU stock price is down over a dollar/share as of this posting. This has the very real possibility of becoming a very expensive blunder for jetBlue management, both in $$$ and lost goodwill among many of its customers.

If and when mainstream media gets ahold of this, it will be big, big news in the New York area, and the price of JBLU stock will most likely suffer a bigger negative shock as traders and others dump the stock over the short-term. I guess this confirms that jetBlue, for all its great achievements, is still run be fallible humans, and this should serve as a reminder that every airline is subject to stepping on its schlong no matter how well run...or perceived as such.

http://www.dontspyon.us/jetbluepants.html

 

[merikeyegro]

...

I did my 5 years in the corps and willing to give up some of my freedoms for security

"I, (name), do solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

Seems styles forgot what he was fighting for. You don't give up freedom for security. Freedom IS security. Security against your own government. Security against the majority. This Constitution is written to protect the INDIVIDUAL, not the majority. So, let's not start advocating mass profiling and building character files on everyone. Bush and his cronies have no chance at eradicating terrorism in the world. Sorry you think so, but it's impossible. You'll bankrupt yourself trying and trample on a LOT of innocent, law-abiding US citizens while you do it.

Think about it before you make another such ignorant comment...

 

[firstthird]

Merikeyegro,
What part of the Constitution, exactly, prevents the government from collecting data? I'm somewhat concerned as well but the fact is that your SSN is all over everything from your home mortage to your driver's license (in most states at least). I'm familiar with the right to free speech, right to congregate, keep and bear arms, etc. I'm not as familiar with the right to not have data collected.

I'm guessing you'll point to search and seizure clause, but asking for your name and SSN isn't exactly detaining you in a third world sweat box.

Anyway, for all of your lecturing to our former Marine who did do 5 years defending the Constitution, I just want to know where in the Constitution it says the gov't cannot collect information. (hint: the right to privacy is not found in the Constitution so don't spend too much time looking for that one.)

And before you let loose with a broadside, I agree that giving up freedom is a poor trade for illusory security but am not convinced that the feds having the right to subpoena library records is going to put me under big brother's thumb. Neither do I think that we have a RIGHT to pay cash and not answer any questions about ourselves if we want to fly on an airplane, we already have to show an ID, etc.
Apologies for the thread creep in advance.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Mo Better

What happened to your posts? You had one calling me "stupid" and that I could not "comprehend" what I read. Why did you delete all three of your posts? And why has no other outspoken jetBlue pilots responded? Just curious.


I still don't think much will come out of this. jetBlue is a respected company and has shown it's commitment to it's passengers. It is just a shame you tried to defend an obvious wrong.

All you jetBlue pilots are usually all over posts about your company.......what happened? Did you guys get a memo not to comment about this? I mean this with sencerity, I figured you guys would have a better handle on the story.

Anyway I'll leave you with this...from a Houston newspaper.....................


Neeleman said JetBlue provided passengers' names, addresses and phone numbers to Torch after an "exceptional request from the Department of Defense to assist their contractor, Torch Concepts, with a project regarding military base security."

 

[merikeyegro]

... ?

firstthird -

Um, didn't mention anything in my post about data collection. If you'd take a look at the quotation at the top of the post, you'd see that I was reacting to his statement about "giving up some freedoms for some security." Nothing else. I think that's a dangerous attitude. You give the gov't an inch, they'll take a mile. For God's sake, the SSN is a great example. Originally, only for SS benefits. Now, pilot's license, school records, driver's license, bank accounts, etc. It's basically your personal bar code. Now it's OK for the gov't to look at what I read and eat? As long as it's for "national security," right? It's called mission creep. Originally, it was fighting terrorism. Now, it's removing regimes. Next, making sure that we screen EVERYONE for terrorism signs. Then, brain scans. All in the name of "national security." You think I'm being alarmist? CAPPS II is a perfect example of how I am NOT. So, let's cut the crap. Someone who serves in the military should be the champion of keeping the d@mn govs off our backs. The military is under civil control. However, funny how things change after the oath is taken. Ashcroft and Bush took the same oath, only to smear the Constitution in 3 years. Congrats. Hope you see this. Maybe you don't. Quite a shame.

I thought SWA was full of free thinkers and mavericks? Maybe a few of you slipped through the cracks as part of the establishment. Too bad. Great company...

 

[SpeedBird]

NYR:

Well, I am a jetBlue pilot and I've already posted my opinion on this issue.

But let me repeat my point. I think that this is mistake committed by jetblue management which could have a significant impact to the airline's reputation over the short-term. As an employee, I don't like what appears to have happened with the assumed confidential information of our customers. For me it isn't about the issue of trying to deal effectively with potential security threats, but about the failure to perform a fiduciary role by one, or more indivduals, within jetBlue's management.

I think David Neeleman's natural inclination at this point is to make a sincere and well-publicized mea culpa, but the lawyers have throttled that idea. Most likely in an effort to mitigate the litigous inclination of so many who are always on the prowl to extort money from such ill-advised blunders.

This is still below the radar screen of most news outlets, but I agree with daedalus that if it gets out anywhere in NY's major media outlets, and reported as part of a pending class-action lawsuit then things could get pretty uncomfortable at the Forest Hills HQ.