JetBlue to Make Major News Announcement

[JayDub]

Jaydub,

Many of us do feel we have a stake in the conversation. You feel that the compensation packages of the lcc's have no effect on those of the majors.

Others disagree.

We'll leave it at that. Really, I was just making a joke, and didn't intend to turn this into a battle.

Feel free to have the last word.

(shrug)

 

[bottomfeeder]

It's funny, all these jetblue fanboys have the same attitude as the people express fanboys of the 80's. Let them enjoy their time in the sun. Blue Kool Aid has no flavor until you put some sugar in it.

 

[Skank]

Thanks, you were blocking my sun there for a minute. Flydeltasjets, thanks for posting your opinion in a respectful, thoughtful way. It gets old hearing how we ought to do things from guys who have no clue and are working under bankruptcy protection.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Furloughed,

You are welcome to blame my motivations on whatever you like, but I can assure you, it ain't jealosy.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

furloughed again,
Delta is NOT 'outsourcing' to ASA and Comair. They are w/o's of Delta and they are assigned routes by Delta just as mainline. DO NOT confuse us with ACA, Sky, Chit and others.

 

[furloughed dude]

Outsourced may have been a poor choice of words. But Delta is not using "mainline" pilots to fly a ton of routes (let me say they are no different from any network carrier). Why? Because they can pay these workers pennies to fly for them.

FDJ, I might be more worried about the use of regional carriers that Delta uses. Your scope clause is among the worst of the worst. I might be more concerned about their effect upon all of our wages instead of Jetblue (a company three years old). I bet the majority of people at ASA or Comair would prefer Jetblue's agreement as opposed to their contract.

Also, my airline (and yours too) are envoking force majeure to allow them to furlough pilots that were supposedly protected. You have to wonder how solid these contracts really are.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Furloughed,

You were right the first time when you said "outsourced." I could not care less that Delta is replacing me with pilots from an airline they own, it still means I lost my job!

I have to laugh at the rest of your post, only because you are apparently new on this board! If you would, click on the "search" button below this post, and go through some of my posts. You will find that I have wasted WAY too much time complaining about the very things that you mentioned. You are 100% correct, you're just preaching to the choir!

Thanks for the post.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

explain how delta is 'outsourcing' flying? Does ASA and comair fly routes assigned to them by Delta or not? Let me see, Chit was given the MCO flying by Delta. It did not go to either mainline or ASA/Cmr. That went to another company NOT owned by Delta. THAT is outsourcing. Why did Delta not put mainline there on that flying?
No, he was not 'right'. If Delta had kept the flying in house, mainline or the w/o's you would still be flying, would that not be correct?

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Delta is an airline. cmr is an airline. ASA is an airline. CHQ, ACA, EGL, etc are airlines.

Delta flying is being transferred to other airlines. Regardless of the reason, the flying is being outsourced from Delta pilots to pilots from other airlines.

If Delta kept the flying at mainline, then yes, I would still be flying. If they outsourced it all to their WO's, then no, I would not be.

They are outsourcing the flying. Whether they give 100% of that outsourced flying to airlines they own, or divide it between all the connection carriers means very little to me. They are still replacing high paying jobs with lower paying one.

That is our fault. We blew it, and continue to do so, to the detriment of the profession.

(You see, unlike many on this board, I am willing to concede that actions at my airline do affect pilots from other airlines)

 

[Redtails]

Do you consider code sharing a way of outsourcing too then? I could see some of the benifits of expanded route structures and all but with NWA, CAL, and DAL getting together next week, where you were competitors before, it would seem that management would be apt to reduce flights where overlapping occurs.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Red,

Let's just put it this way: It makes me VERY nervous.

However, I also believe it is the wave of the future.

We have to be very careful with it. When we gave permission for mgt to enter into the agreement, it came with certain stipulations that management must follow. These include a growth of block hours. On the surface, that should protect us.

Of course, we have a no furlough clause too, and I haven't flown a Delta plane for over a year!

I guess we'll see how well this works.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

FDJ,
The reality sinks in, this is basic Econ 101, high labor costs? Move the work to a labor force that is cheaper. This is N.A.F.T.A. at work, except it's not necessary to move the "shop" to Mexico, when you have another cheap labor force in place already(Regionals). Your(Mainline) choice is hard, it's gonna cost and will be painful:
1) Reduce your wage/benefit structure to "Regional" rates(ouch!)

2) Increase "Regional" wage/benefit structure to a rate that makes it non-economical to shift flying away from "Mainline" via strikes and support to the extreme for "Regional" issues (ouch).

All the scope and/or contract stipulations will only be a finger in the dike, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here and they have lots of shifty laywers looking for a chink in your armor. They are relentless and will not stop until they have us(all) flying for minimum wage, then they will argue minimum wage does not apply to R.L.A. employees, and will take even that away too.
Lets summarize, companies want billions in profit, they have the politicians ears (McCain, Pres Bush etal).
What do we have , "Major" pilots fighting with "Regional" pilots over scope, "Majors" competing with each other for wage consessions, "Regional" companies competing for "contracts", using doom and gloom to scare pilots into wage consessions.
Sounds like divide and conquer to me.

Sun Tsu- " to win a battle with out fighting is the truest victory".

Corp bean counters will not be happy until the A/C are staffed by 1st year and newhire pilots who paid for training, with a payscale that goes for 3 years till topping out @ min wage +3%(1% increase per year).
Good Luck
PBR

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

PBR,

I agree wholeheartedly in helping regional pilots secure better PWA's. I have never stated any differently.

When and until we do so, however, we MUST continue to negotiate language in an attempt to limit mgt's ability to outsource flying.

You say scope is a finger in the dyke. I say that there will ALWAYS be a less expensive pilot group. Scope is the only thing we have to protect our jobs from them.

Fight for high salaries. Fight just as hard for scope to protect them. We did a good job on the former. We screwed the pooch on the latter.

 

[roman]

Wait a minute -- FDJ, you are furloughed? Have you applied at jetBlue? Would you be interested in working for us? I am curious.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

No, I have not applied to Jetblue. While they are a fine company, and people who work there enjoy it, I have no desire to leave Delta. Delta was my dream from boyhood, and I firmly believe that I am in the best place I can be for the future. Although it sucks now, I wouldn't trade with anyone.

Now I know that JB does not require seniority resignation, but knowing that I want to go back to Delta, I am trying to use this furlough to do things I would not have had the opportunity to do, some of which is preparing me so I won't be so dependent on my airline income.

There is also some degree of competitive pride at play! I feel like I got hired by the Yankees. Even though I'm on the DL, I wouldn't want to leave for the Angels or Diamondbacks, even though they have done well lately. I'm still a "Yankee!"

(I think you can see where my baseball loyalties lie!)

Of course, a few more years of this, I might be singing a different tune!