JetBlue to Make Major News Announcement

[FlyDeltasJets]

Red,

Let's just put it this way: It makes me VERY nervous.

However, I also believe it is the wave of the future.

We have to be very careful with it. When we gave permission for mgt to enter into the agreement, it came with certain stipulations that management must follow. These include a growth of block hours. On the surface, that should protect us.

Of course, we have a no furlough clause too, and I haven't flown a Delta plane for over a year!

I guess we'll see how well this works.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

FDJ,
The reality sinks in, this is basic Econ 101, high labor costs? Move the work to a labor force that is cheaper. This is N.A.F.T.A. at work, except it's not necessary to move the "shop" to Mexico, when you have another cheap labor force in place already(Regionals). Your(Mainline) choice is hard, it's gonna cost and will be painful:
1) Reduce your wage/benefit structure to "Regional" rates(ouch!)

2) Increase "Regional" wage/benefit structure to a rate that makes it non-economical to shift flying away from "Mainline" via strikes and support to the extreme for "Regional" issues (ouch).

All the scope and/or contract stipulations will only be a finger in the dike, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here and they have lots of shifty laywers looking for a chink in your armor. They are relentless and will not stop until they have us(all) flying for minimum wage, then they will argue minimum wage does not apply to R.L.A. employees, and will take even that away too.
Lets summarize, companies want billions in profit, they have the politicians ears (McCain, Pres Bush etal).
What do we have , "Major" pilots fighting with "Regional" pilots over scope, "Majors" competing with each other for wage consessions, "Regional" companies competing for "contracts", using doom and gloom to scare pilots into wage consessions.
Sounds like divide and conquer to me.

Sun Tsu- " to win a battle with out fighting is the truest victory".

Corp bean counters will not be happy until the A/C are staffed by 1st year and newhire pilots who paid for training, with a payscale that goes for 3 years till topping out @ min wage +3%(1% increase per year).
Good Luck
PBR

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

PBR,

I agree wholeheartedly in helping regional pilots secure better PWA's. I have never stated any differently.

When and until we do so, however, we MUST continue to negotiate language in an attempt to limit mgt's ability to outsource flying.

You say scope is a finger in the dyke. I say that there will ALWAYS be a less expensive pilot group. Scope is the only thing we have to protect our jobs from them.

Fight for high salaries. Fight just as hard for scope to protect them. We did a good job on the former. We screwed the pooch on the latter.

 

[roman]

Wait a minute -- FDJ, you are furloughed? Have you applied at jetBlue? Would you be interested in working for us? I am curious.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

No, I have not applied to Jetblue. While they are a fine company, and people who work there enjoy it, I have no desire to leave Delta. Delta was my dream from boyhood, and I firmly believe that I am in the best place I can be for the future. Although it sucks now, I wouldn't trade with anyone.

Now I know that JB does not require seniority resignation, but knowing that I want to go back to Delta, I am trying to use this furlough to do things I would not have had the opportunity to do, some of which is preparing me so I won't be so dependent on my airline income.

There is also some degree of competitive pride at play! I feel like I got hired by the Yankees. Even though I'm on the DL, I wouldn't want to leave for the Angels or Diamondbacks, even though they have done well lately. I'm still a "Yankee!"

(I think you can see where my baseball loyalties lie!)

Of course, a few more years of this, I might be singing a different tune!

 

[roman]

I feel the need to inform you that the Yanks were no-hit this week.

(A joke - and meant to slam the Yanks - not Delta. I bleed Philly red - and have very little blood left after the teams they have fielded over the years)

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I know!

Like Delta, the Yanks are not exacly performing up to my expectations this year!

I still believe, though! (on both counts)

 

[PBRstreetgang]

FDJ,
You are gettin'it now, there will always be someone willing to 'ho themselves for a pilot job, thats evident(PFT).
The key is limiting their ability to access the workforce, a union that strictly controls new membership, so as to not saturate the workforce and create a glut of worker bees. The above union must represent all it's membership equally and with vigor! Scope is not necessary if all the pilot group is paid on an even scale/formula with similar benefits, based upon an agreed A/C rate schedule.
The key is dependent upon removing managment's economic incentive to shift flying, as long as it is cheaper to pay laywers to break/circumvent your contracts and shift flying to the cheaper labor group they will.
I fly the CRJ, my best friend flys the 75-76 for a major airline, you ask so what? We do the same basic job, except he is paid 5X my annual rate in cash and the retirement/other bennies are not even laughingly comparable. His(AA) is currently furloughing, mine(SKYW) is hiring. Wake up and smell the coffee, you will continue to lose flying, and SKYW will pick it up and pay me even less(newTA), SKYW and DAL will split the difference in profits. The reality of this is 10 years from now all mainline flying will be done by "contract" companies.
Prior to 9/11 is saw the CEO addressing the ATA on CSPAN2 late night on an overnight, He said" At UAL we could make some real money if we could get rid of the flight ops group" I almost $hit myself, the horror of the 80s-90s temp agencies was coming to the airline industry. 9/11 allowed a legion of laywers to bring this upon us, and we are too foolish to take note, instead we busy ourselves with tiny details like scope which will have no effect except to divide the pilot groups, which will allow the mgmt. teams to achieve their goals, increased profits.
Step back, look past those trees that are blocking your view of the forest. This is huge and will not stop here. This is not without precident just look at the Temp employment agency industry and you will see the eerie parallels. SKYW just inked an 11 year deal w/UAL and I cant imagine a deal wDAL will be much further away. If you are lucky DALPA will strike a deal requiring SKYW to allow furloughed DAL pilots Captain/supersenority slots, what a deal, you get to fly 50-99 seat A/C for 2 year old 50 seat rates. Our bennies-
no retirement, poor 401(k), crappy work rules(and getting worse everyday), oh yes the coupdegra, contract with UAL,DAL,CAL, that can be cancelled with minimum penalities. Effectively reseting your and my senority to 0, but I hear MESA will be offering prefferential interviews to all furloughed pilots.
Think this can't happen? Ask a Westair pilot sometime how his interview with SKYW went.
PBR

 

[furloughed dude]

FDJ,

I previously worked for the second highest paying airline. It was my dream job as well. I don't think I will get back in several years (I was a 99 hire). I don't know what will happen, but I don't see folks at Delta getting hired back for some time either. Both of our companies are looking at renegotions, and I think both will sell out on both wages and more importantly, productivity. I have applied at Jetblue and other corporate jobs. I am not willing to surrender my seniority, but there is a very good chance that I would choose to stay a company like Jetblue.....

I guess what I am saying is don't ever doubt that your union will sell you out.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Furloughed,

I don't doubt it. But I also work to decrease the likelyhood.

PBR,

Your proposal is interesting, and I don't discount it out of hand. Please give me some more info, including:

1. A realistic strategy for achieving it.

2. A solution to the fact that there are many non-union and non-ALPA airlines (as you know).

3. A solution to the fact that some airlines are able to pay more than others. The way I see it, your proposal would either a: lower payrates at the more financially stable airlines, or b: cost jobs or even lead to liquidation of the weaker carriers.