JetBlue Staffing of the EMB's

[General Lee]

Speedbird is speechless. Man that was easy.

Dizel8,

I like the avitar. Anyways, when you said that Song or Delta Connection miles under the American Eagle codeshare are not redeamed on NWA-- I think that is correct. The AA Eagle codeshare stuff in LA is not really DCI or SONG---and that is expected. Someday we will replace that flying with actual DCI flying--like Comair and ASA. But, that doesn't mean Song flights aren't redeamable on NW and CO---the AA eagle flights aren't.
I still don't know why we have them as a code share partner--I guess we are waiting for more RJs to arrive.

How would you know if we were losing money on our LA flights? We will have 22 a day from the LA basin to ATL---and that means a lot of seats, but the basin has what? 10 Million people? Every time I fly in there we are full--and on the 767-300 that means spread out revenue and lots of cargo. Now that we can carry next day air mail for the USPS--we fill those things up, along with bags and a lot of special cargo too--like fish from ANC--SLC--LAX.
I guess we can't make any money on any flights according to some people---even though we had a $31 million operating profit in June.

Yes, we have to bring our costs down, and we are not totally changing over to the dark side--I mean the LCC. We still have premium seats and fares waiting for the economy to return and people wanting a better product. We won't go totally towards Song, but we will offer that to the price concious consumer--and that will help out. We do really well on the Business Elite service from Europe to the US---and we always fill first class to LA and high density markets. The passengers out there aren't only the super frugal small business folk that Jetblue might serve due to low fares, there are also high end passengers. We have Song to take care of the price concious ones, and mainline first class to fly the lawyers who expense it to their clients, and the middle managers who want the frequent flyer points etc. We will not totally turn into a LCC, and we will cut back where necessary to cover the extra costs and become more competitive in some markets---but not all--like ATL to Munich. Watch out--Airtran will fly their 737NG's there next!!!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

I think the General is making some good points. It's too early to write off Song. Once it has 35+ 757s equipped with new TVs flying the same routes as Jetblue, then you can make a comparison. From what I have heard, Song is doing better than initial projections.

P.S. Yonkers does SUCK! Sorry to any of the Jetblue guys who live there...

 

[FL717]

We have like 12 757's on Song right now, and we will have 36 by December--flying to sunny warm places from the NE and FLA (LAS and SJU etc too). The summer time probably wasn't the best time to start, but the winter time will yeild results.

I think that the summertime is actually the BEST time to start the service to those destinations on SONG. It brings name recognition and capacity on those routes now (whether at a loss or not) so that you are poised when winter does roll around. Those routes are like shooting fish in a barrel during the wintertime. Yours and everyones load factors will be thru the roof, as you already know from flying Express..

Now heres the million dollar question?? What will be your yield on those routes with SONG on the 757? It didn't work with the 737-200 with Express.

That will decide success or failure.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

DAL continues to live under the premise, that there is no room for competetion and that all other must be destroyed. I suppose, a monopoly would be nice, one could charge outrageous fares

Ahhhh.....The good ol' days.

 

[Blue Dude]

"I know this wasn't directed at me General, but I'll reply anyway. You can research this if you want (it's public info) but we didn't change the ATL-LGB routes to once a day because they were losing money, it was so we can make MORE money on other routes."

That is such B.S. You guys really believe everything your management says, don't you?... Why would you almost exit a market (drop 66% of flights) with an 83% load factor?

I'll probably regret getting into this, but I'll respond anyway. It's pretty simple, General. JetBlue is both making money and in a position to make more money elsewhere. You already know that LGB is very slot constrained, so it's crucial to get the most bang for the buck for every one of those slots. ATL might have worked as a real money machine, but it didn't, mostly because you were willing to double capacity on that route. So rather than let egos get in the way of good business, they've decided to give one slot over to FLL and the other temporary one up to Alaska this fall. Yes, Delta's actions were a big part of this decision, so you can claim victory if you like. However, JetBlue netted a profit on this route, and it's very unlikely that Delta did anything other than bleed. Try as you might, you can't fill seats below your cost and then make it up in volume (AA found this out on JFK-OAK). And the pain will just keep coming since your yields won't come back overnight. In fact, with JetBlue and AirTran still in the market, they won't ever come back again. OAK is next, and we're not slot constrained there. I wouldn't brag too much if I were you.

Now we will have the correct plane (757) flying 199 people to warm destinations--with a better frequent flyer program and a better selection of airports to depart from. You never respond to those---those are your weaknesses.

You are correct, those are JetBlue's weaknesses compared to a large network carrier like Delta. Those are also JetBlue's strengths from a cost standpoint. Operating from three airports in close proximity and providing a global frequent flier program both cost you significantly. At the same time, the lack of such service does not affect JetBlue's customer acceptance in the slightest. Song seems to think that it's worth it, but it's early yet. Perhaps if JetBlue matched such amenities, it would draw additional customers, but the cost of doing so would likely be more than it would be worth. So use what advantages you have to differentiate yourself; it's what we're doing. Too bad we'll never see Song's numbers to tell for sure.

 

[Dizel8]

Actually, I understood it to read that neither Song nor AEagle miles can be used for travel on NWA. Not that it makes much difference.

Secondly, I did not say DAL was loosing money to LAX, I said they probably were. Fact vs opinion Opinion based on the fact, that DAL doubled the frequency once jetBlue and Airtran entered the market. If it is such a money maker, why not do it prior to that.
The proof will be, if DAL maintains the frequency.

As far as Song is concerned, like I said, I think it is a great concept. Does it make money, who knows? DAL, like with DLEX, does not release the numbers for Song. That is neither good nor bad, that is just the way it is.

 

[General Lee]

Blue Dude,


You and I do not know what the profit margin or loss potential on the ATL--LA basin routes are for Delta. I am sure they were a lot more profitable before, but maybe they are making a small profit. The chances that all of this has increased the market awareness (the Cabs in LA are now adorned with Delta ads reading "La Basin to ATL--22 times a day") for Delta is likely. There are also something like 10 million people living in LA, and maybe our flights are doing very well. Same goes with OAK. Sure, the fares were probably higher before and profits more, but all of these West coast cities we are talking about have high end people---and probably high end passengers too who like free trips to Palm Beach in First class. Who knows?

Giving people a selection in NYC is important---it is the second largest city in the world--after Mexico City. The passengers in Manhattan would rather drive to closer LGA than JFK--unless they take the Carey Bus (or Shame Train) from Grand Central for $25.
Most prefer LGA or EWR from Manhattan--and people will eventually try Song out if the fares are the same, both have TV, and a frequent flyer program exists. Let's just wait until we get it up to 36 757's and TVs are in--then we should compare.

Dizel8,

I agree with you. Let's wait and watch this one carefully and see how it goes. Atleast Delta has made the effort to combat the LCCs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

Song seems like a good idea...will it make any money under the DAL flag? Who knows its a wait and see. The bigger picture I would be concerned about is that DAL will spin SOnd off into a independant like DCI and have a seperate goup and cetificate to pound the pilot unions (notice plural because ALPA eats thier own and all have to fend for themselves) into concessions and just in DAL alone have 8 carriers fighting for traffic. But I quess the LCC's are dangerous mainly AirTran because we command a whopping 1% (1/100th) of domestic taffic (for now ). Im really looking forward to the 7E7 someday flying to Madrid and London with a nice green tail with a small "a" on on it. And General before you tell me not to get "Cocky" I will because I LOVE MY AIRLINEas you and others love thiers.

 

[General Lee]

FLB717,

I don't think you are cocky. I actually think you are rational and I can understand your love for your company. The key difference is that you agree with me that we will both have to watch and see how this goes, not immediately shooting it down without giving it a chance. You might be right about Delta wanting to spin it off, but id it is successful and profitable as management says it will be, it is highly unlikely they would dump it. I think it is great that Delta decided to continue courting the Low Fare customer after Delta Express (which did fine--not poorly)--and they are willing to take on Jetblue and your airline to some extent (not as much) and not retreat. We shall see what happens.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

General
A lot a peaple get all tied up a bout LCC's and that has an effect on the group as a whole..but most groups will try to reach a level that is relativly close in pay over time. Division of labor groups in one company has more of a dirrect effect in pay vs outside competition. I have no hard facts to back that up with just personal observation. That is what I see as a larger threat. And DAL has moved to mulple layers faster and better that any other carrier Bassicly we all need to ask if anagment seens to be all for different groups just how good can it be for us. Unlike Ican or Lorenzo multiple companies under on roof with only one brand name (DA= Sond-DAL Mainline-DCI (ASA/CMR/CHT) pulls off a feat hat Lorenzo would have used if he was smarter. Any way that is what I see as the next large Labor/Managment hurdle and General and the Boys at DAL (whole family) are the tip of the spear I do and will support you on that issue. we at AAI do have contract provision that if the company buys anothe carrie (ie. express) it wiil become one list just for that reason.