JetBlue pilot found not guilty by Reason of Insanity byTexas judge

[Turtle21]

Hahahaha. Silly Blujet pilots know they don't need a union.....

....yeah, evidently you shouldn't pay dues after all, folks that have paid dues have been convicted, just sayin' :lol:

 

[Andy]

Andy, welcome back! You on the 756 or 73?

Thanks! 73. L-UAL furloughees go to the 73; a few have gotten 756 slots in the spring vacancy bids. Since I'm in Tucson, I'll likely bid for the 73 out of LAX; much easier commute.

 

[B6Busdriver]

....yeah, evidently you shouldn't pay dues after all, folks that have paid dues have been convicted, just sayin' :lol:

Yeah we shall see. Soon JetBlue will cut bait and with the fabulous benefits at B6 he'll get 2 years of LTD. Then he will have nothing, nada, zilch, zero. I wonder what disability pays for mental illness at airlines with a CBA. Hmmmm.

 

[airplane wizard]

Lack of sleep caused it???

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Tired...n-osbons-march/story?id=16751079#.T_zPQnDTJDI

 

[Lear70]

It can be a contributing factor.

Had a talk with my Psychiatrist fiance' about this, and she said that some people, if you combine a large amount of stress with sleep deprivation (due in large part to the stress in some cases), coupled with another external stressor, maybe alcohol from the night before and/or even talking about the stress with someone (the other pilot), can experience a brief psychotic break when they've otherwise been completely normal.

She also said that once experienced, they are often more likely to have another event than they were before, which is why any history of mental illness is pretty much a permanent grounding.

Sleep deprivation and stress do crazy things to brain chemistry, there's no denying that medical science, both in and out of aviation.

 

[SWA Bubba]

It can be a contributing factor.

Had a talk with my Psychiatrist fiance' about this,....

Wait... In this case, did you mean the person your psychiatrist is going to marry, or your finace, who just happens to be a psychiatrist? Cause from a FAA medical examiner standpoint, there's a BIG difference!

Bubba

 

[Lear70]

*chuckle*...

We're pilots... aren't we all a little crazy? (kidding, by the way).

Yes, my fiance' who happens to be a practicing psychiatrist.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So will pilots have to carry "malpractice" insurance to defend themselves against lawsuits filed against them personally? If a judge can throw you in jail for interfering with - yourself - then what's to stop them from throwing you in jail on charges of gross negligence and vehicular manslaughter if (God forbid) you actually survive a fatal crash?

The Lawyers are licking their chops over the possibility of cashing in on a multi-million dollar suit against both the airline AND the pilot.

But, don't worry about this. Just go back to arguing about scope and seniority and who's screwing whom.

 

[vetrider]

Yeah we shall see. Soon JetBlue will cut bait and with the fabulous benefits at B6 he'll get 2 years of LTD. Then he will have nothing, nada, zilch, zero. I wonder what disability pays for mental illness at airlines with a CBA. Hmmmm.

Well at AWA, Alpo represented, what you describe is just what we got. Our guy in question was cut off at 2 years, if memory serves.

 

[Bringupthebird]

ALPA HIMS wasn't really set up for the mental illness scenario.

 

[Andy]

Lack of sleep caused it???

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Tired...n-osbons-march/story?id=16751079#.T_zPQnDTJDI

I'm not so sure you can single out lack of sleep. Didn't someone post quite a while ago that Osbon was regularly working some ludicrous number like 120+ credit hours per month?

I know the overtime whoares (intentionally misspelled to get past the silly censoring software) are going to jump me for this but maybe it's time that the FAA limited the maximum number of credit hours per month/quarter/year.

 

[Lear70]

People get to those numbers by using premium time, which you know.

Much more effective to limit the number of BLOCK house (which they already do), or to mandate more rest between work rotations (40 hours in 7 instead of 30 would force an actual 2 calendar day break, which would help make people take time off).

Personally, if I can drop my regular-pay flying and pick up premium time, work the same number of days as my original line and get paid 100+ hours of credit, that's my business. Days off from work and sleep in a normal circadian rhythm is the key, not limiting income.

 

[Andy]

People get to those numbers by using premium time, which you know.

Much more effective to limit the number of BLOCK house (which they already do), or to mandate more rest between work rotations (40 hours in 7 instead of 30 would force an actual 2 calendar day break, which would help make people take time off).

Personally, if I can drop my regular-pay flying and pick up premium time, work the same number of days as my original line and get paid 100+ hours of credit, that's my business. Days off from work and sleep in a normal circadian rhythm is the key, not limiting income.

It's not only premium time; it's also deadhead time. And I don't consider deadhead time to be restful.

You're trying to justify the exact same practice that Osbon did for many years which resulted in chronic fatigue. Pilots need to be limited in the number of monthly credit hours because there are far too many credit whoeres out there who push themselves to (and beyond) the limits in order to make a couple extra bucks. All's fine and well until they screw the pooch.

Here's a better solution for you. Sure, pick up premium time. But instead of working so much that you get additional credit hours, use premium time to get more time off of work so that you can rest.

Pilots are our own worst enemies; we'll fly until we collapse from exhaustion. All to make a couple extra bucks so we can buy a bigger boat/faster car/bigger house.

 

[Lear70]

It's not only premium time; it's also deadhead time. And I don't consider deadhead time to be restful.

Nor do I.

You're trying to justify the exact same practice that Osbon did for many years which resulted in chronic fatigue.

No, I'm simply making sure people think about their actions before they go off on some tangent. I balance my time off responsibly so I'm not fatigued. I also like premium time and have absolutely ZERO interest in someone trying to tell me how much I can or cannot pick up.

Pilots need to be limited in the number of monthly credit hours because there are far too many credit whoeres out there who push themselves to (and beyond) the limits in order to make a couple extra bucks. All's fine and well until they screw the pooch.

That's what monthly and 7 day limits are for. If you don't think they're enough, go after more.

Here's a better solution for you. Sure, pick up premium time. But instead of working so much that you get additional credit hours, use premium time to get more time off of work so that you can rest.

It's not really your place to tell me what a better solution is or isn't for me. For instance, last month I lost my I.D on a camping trip (don't know how, it was in the truck, have NEVER lost one before, but it happened). I missed a trip that got deducted from my credit and lost almost $1,500 in my pocket as a result. That hurt, but gave me a bunch of days off. This month my credit is about 87 hours with 18 days off as a result of interface. If I dropped a trip and picked one up over the 4th at premium, I could easily top 110 credit hours and have the same number of days off and get some of the money I lost back. But if you limited my ability to do that with some artificial "credit cap", you screw me. I'm not interested in that.

Pilots are our own worst enemies; we'll fly until we collapse from exhaustion. All to make a couple extra bucks so we can buy a bigger boat/faster car/bigger house.

No, stupid pilots fly until they collapse from exhaustion. You can't fix stupid, nor are you going to help by artificially capping those of us who find premium time responsibly.

If you want to address fatigue, as I mentioned before, then limit a MINIMUM number of days off per month and/or increase the minimum time off per 7 consecutive days to force 2 days of in between trips somewhere in a 7 day period as well as completely eliminating the allowance of the flipping of circadian rhythm.

Fatigue is about time off and circadian rhythm, not money. If I can responsibly chase some extra coin, that's my business. Not anyone else's, the FAA included.

 

[redflyer65]

I tend to agree with Lear on this one. There are alot of guys out there that pickup foolishly. If your wise in your pickups, you can make extra AND be rested.

It would be interesting to see the past few months of Osbon's schedule. If he was fatigued from what he was doing, then he wasn't being very smart. I have no facts, so I really don't know.