Jetblue Fancies Itself A "Career" Airline

[shadesofBS]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[BeachBummer]

I thought we were a "destination" airline. Did I miss another email?

 

[$$$4nothin]

If you aren't going to give at least an opinion on an issue can't you keep it to our internal board. Other than being a tool what is the point of you starting this thread the way you started it. Why not give facts regarding the reasons that JB is not a career airline in your opinion, or what you feel would make our airline a career airline vs. a destination airline. Why not try and help the cause vs. just writing a statement that makes you sound like a complaining 12 year old girl. More facts vs. more bitching and stupidity might be a better way to go. This might help more people get off the fence or help new guys coming here make a more informed decision. Every time someone just randomly complains or belittles someone with a different opinion it pushes them further away from what we are trying to achieve. Why not fight as hard as you can for as long as you can to give these people facts to help them change there opinion instead of just yelling at them and complaining about things. Act like the proffesional pilot you want to be treated like instead of acting like a little kid.

 

[pilotyip]

If you aren't going to give at least an opinion on an issue can't you keep it to our internal board. Other than being a tool what is the point of you starting this thread the way you started it. Why not give facts regarding the reasons that JB is not a career airline in your opinion, or what you feel would make our airline a career airline vs. a destination airline. Why not try and help the cause vs. just writing a statement that makes you sound like a complaining 12 year old girl. More facts vs. more bitching and stupidity might be a better way to go. This might help more people get off the fence or help new guys coming here make a more informed decision. Every time someone just randomly complains or belittles someone with a different opinion it pushes them further away from what we are trying to achieve. Why not fight as hard as you can for as long as you can to give these people facts to help them change there opinion instead of just yelling at them and complaining about things. Act like the proffesional pilot you want to be treated like instead of acting like a little kid.

Nicely said, I know a lot of people working at KYIP who think JB would be great palce to go. Following a boat load that have already made that move going back as far as 2001. But then again most of them fly because they like to.

 

[J.Otto]

Better to have a career at JB than one at a regional.

 

[shadesofBS]

Better to have a career at JB than one at a regional.

Otto just SAID IT ALL.:laugh:

 

[$$$4nothin]

Otto just SAID IT ALL.:laugh:

JB is better than being at a regional. Is that bad? Do you have an issue with that. Do you not want JB to be better than a regional. I can gladdly name at least 20 ways that JB is better than my previous regional. I don't understand your issue with JB being better than a regional, or what is wrong with that statement. Isn't that the point. Better yet, is the point that the more pilots we get from regionals the better. Prior regional pilots understand the need for a union and CBA. Prior regional pilots are all tired of being beat on. Prior regional pilots don't have other forms of income, retirement, or medical benefits. Pror regional pilots will have 30-40 more years of a career that they need the protections that only a CBA will afford them. So again, instead of just being a DB why don't you use your big boy words and explain to guys what the up and down sides of JetBlue, and being at a non union airline are.

 

[StarChecker]

But then again most of them fly because they like to.

Oh my holy god, you're a nightmare. Crawl back to your office. Some of us are trying to have professional careers.

You and your pals want to have fun...go rent a Warrior.

Good friggin grief...

 

[say again]

JB is better than being at a regional. Is that bad? Do you have an issue with that. Do you not want JB to be better than a regional. I can gladdly name at least 20 ways that JB is better than my previous regional. I don't understand your issue with JB being better than a regional, or what is wrong with that statement. Isn't that the point. Better yet, is the point that the more pilots we get from regionals the better. Prior regional pilots understand the need for a union and CBA. Prior regional pilots are all tired of being beat on. Prior regional pilots don't have other forms of income, retirement, or medical benefits. Pror regional pilots will have 30-40 more years of a career that they need the protections that only a CBA will afford them. So again, instead of just being a DB why don't you use your big boy words and explain to guys what the up and down sides of JetBlue, and being at a non union airline are.

OMG, someone said something negative about JB..the horror. Get over it.

 

[Flyer1015]

That's not just crazy, that's JetBlue crazy!

 

[Smarta$$]

Oh my holy god, you're a nightmare. Crawl back to your office. Some of us are trying to have professional careers.

You and your pals want to have fun...go rent a Warrior.

Good friggin grief...

I agree. Yip, liking to fly doesn't pay the mortgage, put the kids through college, pay the doctor when the family gets sick or provide me with an adequate retirement.

I do like to fly. I like it a lot.

I do NOT like being away from the family 4-5 days at a time. I do NOT like 12 hour days with 4 legs. I do NOT like the missed holidays, kids b-days, missed family dinners, working weekends....

This is not my hobby. This is NOT my hobby. This is my career. Period.

 

[linepilot]

Are you willing to STRIKE for it?

 

[shadesofBS]

If you aren't going to give at least an opinion on an issue can't you keep it to our internal board. Other than being a tool what is the point of you starting this thread the way you started it. Why not give facts regarding the reasons that JB is not a career airline in your opinion, or what you feel would make our airline a career airline vs. a destination airline. Why not try and help the cause vs. just writing a statement that makes you sound like a complaining 12 year old girl. More facts vs. more bitching and stupidity might be a better way to go. This might help more people get off the fence or help new guys coming here make a more informed decision. Every time someone just randomly complains or belittles someone with a different opinion it pushes them further away from what we are trying to achieve. Why not fight as hard as you can for as long as you can to give these people facts to help them change there opinion instead of just yelling at them and complaining about things. Act like the proffesional pilot you want to be treated like instead of acting like a little kid.

The original pilot total compensation package as presented in my interview by Barger/Neeleman/Spain touted:

1. Pay that would parallel Southwest pilots.
2. Benefits that would parallel Southwest pilots.
3. Stock options and CSPP that would supplement our retirement.
4. Productive work rules that would provide opportunity.
5. A health plan that we would never have to worry about.
6. The freedom from arguing about anything. It was all just gonna be taken care of. We weren't going to need rules or complicated processes.

NONE of that manifested itself. We've been f#ckin the dog since 2003.

The ONLY thing that happened was a fast upgrade and a barrage of Ford & Harrison strategy and lies.

So in my best "big boy" words:

I will be a "net detractor" on a go forward basis.

Capiche?

 

[CapnVegetto]

The original pilot total compensation package as presented in my interview by Barger/Neeleman/Spain touted:

1. Pay that would parallel Southwest pilots.
2. Benefits that would parallel Southwest pilots.
3. Stock options and CSPP that would supplement our retirement.
4. Productive work rules that would provide opportunity.
5. A health plan that we would never have to worry about.
6. The freedom from arguing about anything. It was all just gonna be taken care of. We weren't going to need rules or complicated processes.

NONE of that manifested itself. We've been f#ckin the dog since 2003.

The ONLY thing that happened was a fast upgrade and a barrage of Ford & Harrison strategy and lies.

So in my best "big boy" words:

I will be a "net detractor" on a go forward basis.

Capiche?

Why in the hell did you buy their BS?

$hit, I was watching TV at 2am the other night and I saw at least 4 different people telling me that I can be a millionaire working 2 days a week from home. Do you believe that too?

B6 is NOT a bad job, period. It's not as good as DL, WN, or any of the big guys, but I knew that coming in. I didn't believe the BS, but I never do anyway. I know if I get stuck here for 30 years, I'll be just fine. I also know it was far better than where I was at. Is B6 my career plan A? No way. But it's a damn good plan B.

Things are not terrible now. When a union comes, things will get better. But if you are complaining about a corporate manager lying to you, I can't help but LOL until I piss myself. I trust 1 person in this world when it comes to my career: ME. You should try that. They ALL lie. ALL of them. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. It's probably too late for guys like you to figure out, but the American business model is forever changed. It's no longer loyalty, building a strong company, hiring and retaining the best people. The new business model is P/E ratios, shareholder value, increase profits, lower costs, and transfer company ownership and make a bundle. The fact that you bought their bull$hit is not a bad thing for you, it just means they are good bull$hitters and you are from the old school, still believing in the business practices of the past.

They are long gone, never coming back.

I am a misanthrope when it comes to the workplace. It is an unfortunate attitude to have, but it is the correct one these days.

Never trust nobody. Ever. The days of trust are gone forever.

 

[pilotyip]

Oh my holy god, you're a nightmare. Crawl back to your office. Some of us are trying to have professional careers.

You and your pals want to have fun...go rent a Warrior.

Good friggin grief...

Public forum, so public comment. So am I reading you can not be a professional, have fun and like to fly at the same time. Man then I have pursued the wrong career. BTW Don't need to rent a Warrior, I own a C-172, teach people to fly, volunteer for a Warbird Museum, flying the B-17 and C-47.

I agree. Yip, liking to fly doesn't pay the mortgage, put the kids through college, pay the doctor when the family gets sick or provide me with an adequate retirement.

I do like to fly. I like it a lot.

I do NOT like being away from the family 4-5 days at a time. I do NOT like 12 hour days with 4 legs. I do NOT like the missed holidays, kids b-days, missed family dinners, working weekends....

This is not my hobby. This is NOT my hobby. This is my career. Period.

Well liking to fly has paid all my bills, going to provide for a nice retirement, and the beauty of this job is when you set the parking brake going into your days off; your time is your own. No project deadlines to keep you up at night, no customers calling you on Saturday night telling you of their problems BTW If being home all time is high on your list of priorities, then flying is not a career to pursue. School teaching would be a great choice; they get more time off than an airline pilot, home every night, and in good places make around 80K per year. Have a fantastic union almost impossible to get fired. If you like to fly separation comes with the job.

 

[a320drivr]

Are you willing to STRIKE for it?

Yep. No problem whatsoever.

 

[Smarta$$]

Yep, still no reason to accept less than we are worth.

 

[Smarta$$]

The original pilot total compensation package as presented in my interview by Barger/Neeleman/Spain touted:

1. Pay that would parallel Southwest pilots.
2. Benefits that would parallel Southwest pilots.
3. Stock options and CSPP that would supplement our retirement.
4. Productive work rules that would provide opportunity.
5. A health plan that we would never have to worry about.
6. The freedom from arguing about anything. It was all just gonna be taken care of. We weren't going to need rules or complicated processes.

NONE of that manifested itself. We've been f#ckin the dog since 2003.

The ONLY thing that happened was a fast upgrade and a barrage of Ford & Harrison strategy and lies.

So in my best "big boy" words:

I will be a "net detractor" on a go forward basis.

Capiche?

Just so we can add some context to your opinions and let everyone know how bad you actually have it, ballpark, what was your W2 last year?

 

[aewanabe]

I'm not sure of your point, Smartass. My w2 last year was the best it's ever been. There are several good things about working here. In your world that means I should be happy with the constant take always by management and their complete inability to abide by their own "values"?

 

[CapnVegetto]

I'm not sure of your point, Smartass. My w2 last year was the best it's ever been. There are several good things about working here. In your world that means I should be happy with the constant take always by management and their complete inability to abide by their own "values"?

No, what it means is that it makes you, (and all of us) look like entitled, greedy, pathetic whiners when you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the richest nation in the world and you are pissing and moaning like you are a starving African kid eating a small bowl of rice once a day with flies on his eyeballs.

It disengenuous.

There is nothing that says we can't vote in a union and fight for improvements, but if you cant live a very comfortable life on $100k plus a year, you have a serious problem and need to learn to manage your money better. Stop the bitching and vote in the union. Let things get better from there. But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm not sure of your point, Smartass. My w2 last year was the best it's ever been. There are several good things about working here. In your world that means I should be happy with the constant take always by management and their complete inability to abide by their own "values"?

No. Not what I am saying. Mostly what vegetto said. I suspect he earns in the neighborhood of 200k unless he bids min schedule or is very junior captain. Very hard to take him serious in that case....

 

[Dizel8]

100K used to be a magic number, it was a decade ago, but not any longer.

Is it above the median, why sure, but far below what Major airline pilots used to make, compared to inflation.

Heck, with a bit of over time, one could make more working in the oil/gas field.

 

[pilotyip]

No, what it means is that it makes you, (and all of us) look like entitled, greedy, pathetic whiners when you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the richest nation in the world and you are pissing and moaning like you are a starving African kid eating a small bowl of rice once a day with flies on his eyeballs.

It disengenuous.

There is nothing that says we can't vote in a union and fight for improvements, but if you cant live a very comfortable life on $100k plus a year, you have a serious problem and need to learn to manage your money better. Stop the bitching and vote in the union. Let things get better from there. But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

Hey stop dealing in reality, this is FI where reality is ignored.

Yep, still no reason to accept less than we are worth.

In the end the consumer of airline tickets will determine what you are worth. Not the fantasy of the way it used to be, flying is still a great job and one of the highest paying jobs in the country for a skilled worker. It is a free market and consumer will change their travel plans for a $1 difference in price. The former low cost carrier with the highest crew per seat mile, is now under financial pressure to maintain profitibility.

 

[Dizel8]

Yip,

You are such a tool, and I mean that in the best possible way, but you have a bit of a slanted view on things.

The customer, whom we love btw, will pay the going fare, just like, despite the rising cost of shipping with FedEx and UPS hasn't stopped them from shipping.

The problem is, in my view, that air carriers are chasing customers at all cost, "who cares if money are lost on each, we make up for it in volume".

Running 90% load factors, but still not making a profit, now that's brilliant!

 

[CapnVegetto]

100K used to be a magic number, it was a decade ago, but not any longer.

Is it above the median, why sure, but far below what Major airline pilots used to make, compared to inflation.

Heck, with a bit of over time, one could make more working in the oil/gas field.

I do not believe that, unfortunately.

My father earned less than that over about 80% of his career.

He managed to help me with my college, put a roof over our heads, food on the table, and clothes on our backs our whole life. We didn't have a new car every other year or a vacation home in the Pocanos or crap like that, but we lead a very good life.

He has been retired now for 7 years, comfortably, and will never work another day in his life.

Its not about how much you make, (over a certain threshold of course), it's about the choices you make and how you manage your life and income.

It ain't rocket surgery. Of course, if you don't like this flying stuff, you could always go work in an oil field.

 

[Dizel8]

Please "Captain",

You might want to take a look at inflation, the increase in college tuition, the increase in medical expenses, the decrease in true retirement plans.

I have no doubt you Dad did all those things, and did them well, but remember inflation, if he made 50K in the 1980's that, purchase power wise,requires quite a bit more today. Find an inflation calculator, crunch the numbers, it'll all make sense.

The average income for the middle class, while perhaps constant in actual dollar pay out, has been eaten up by expenses in other areas.

In the mid '90's, I was making $50K flying for a tiny 135 on demand operator, yet, an FO for a major airline in some cases, barely cracks the 100K mark, yes there is something wrong with that picture.

However, having said that, if you are happy, then who am I to tell you different, it is after all your life.

Here is a nice example: "What cost $52000 in 1994 would cost $75496.39 in 2010."

Why don't you ask YIP what his CA's make today, what their medical insurance cost are, how much they get in retirement?

 

[pilotyip]

Yip,

You are such a tool, and I mean that in the best possible way, but you have a bit of a slanted view on things.

The customer, whom we love btw, will pay the going fare, just like, despite the rising cost of shipping with FedEx and UPS hasn't stopped them from shipping.

The problem is, in my view, that air carriers are chasing customers at all cost, "who cares if money are lost on each, we make up for it in volume".

Running 90% load factors, but still not making a profit, now that's brilliant!

Sorry about being a tool, but I am only posting the reality I see in our industry. But no one can escape the low fare carrier, which is now Spirit, because people want cheap. Spirit from what I hear has the highest profit per airplane of any 121 scheduled pax airline. Airlines are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity.

Look at SWA highest priced airline, highest paid in employees for almost every position, that is great, but they are under tremendous pressure to remain profitable.

Look at FedEx, Fred Smith just posted that air shipments are down because of the competition form surface transportation and cost of shipping FedEx Air. For instance I buy a seal for my brakes in my C-172, it cost 23 cents, I want is the next day, the cost goes to $35, I say ship it ground.

 

[Rerouted]

I left the airlines because I thought the pay was lousy, the lifestyle was worse and the ensuing headaches weren't worth it. The guys I speak to at jetBlue run the gamut from very happy (yes..including a lot of senior pilots), to not as happy with it (although nowhere near as unhappy as what I read on this board). Let's turn this into something that comes off slightly more productive (and easier for those of us who aren't at B6 to understand). I can clue you in that the world is pretty lousy all over right now and jobs stink whether you are away or not...but...I'll always agree that pilots don't get 1/2 what they deserve in pay or rest. Exactly what are you guys looking for over there? List it out for those of us feel for you as professionals, but would like to see the specifics.

 

[Dizel8]

Rerouted,

All the "greedy" pilots at bigblue are looking for, is industry average in ALL areas, pay, benefits, retirement, work rules, etc.

That's it, nothing earth shattering and something that the company agreed to, several times over. This would a big step forward for the group and one of the selling point of the union free environment was, that this was easily achieved without "silly" negotiations delays.

Industry average, that's it, that's all we asked for, and considering our productivity, check out the MIT airlines analysis, that is one heck of a discount to management.

The short of a long story, it's sort of like the scorpion and the frog, the scorpion being management. "Because it's in my nature!"

 

[Lake Alice]

No, what it means is that it makes you, (and all of us) look like entitled, greedy, pathetic whiners when you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the richest nation in the world and you are pissing and moaning like you are a starving African kid eating a small bowl of rice once a day with flies on his eyeballs.

It disengenuous.

There is nothing that says we can't vote in a union and fight for improvements, but if you cant live a very comfortable life on $100k plus a year, you have a serious problem and need to learn to manage your money better. Stop the bitching and vote in the union. Let things get better from there. But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

Actually we have about 2000 apps on file. The word is quickly getting out. Many pilots are deciding that making the intermediate step to Jetblue while waiting for a major just isn't worth it. To each their own but pilots are not lining up to interview as they did in the past.