JetBlue article from thestreet.com

[32LT10]

I never could understand why pilots seem to take such glee in pointing out when things aren't going well for others. I think that "its all about me" attitude permeates the aviation buisness.

Why? The bluebirds are not the folks we all wanted at the party. Therefore if something sours in blueville then the better for the rest of the world. First flyi now jblu.

 

[Ex737Driver]

The bluebirds are not the folks we all wanted at the party.

Didn't want anyone else at the party either, as a matter of fact. Nobody did. Problem is once the door was opened, it can't be closed. Has JBLU survived and prospered. Yes. At the expense of other airlines? Yes, under the banner of low fares and the boob tube. Will JBLU last? Dunno, don't care.

I think that "its all about me" attitude permeates the aviation buisness.

Really? You sure about that or just guessing?

Will the next "God's gift to airlines" come around the corner in 06? Yes, Virgin America or Skybus or Maxjet or EOS or blah blah blah blah blah. From here on out it will be "the lowest common denominater" is the DARLING of Wall Street. Are fares lowered? Yes. Will other airlines suffer for it? Yes. Will any airlines employees benefit? Yes, but only in the short term. In the long run, management is the only one that really scores and the sad thing is they keep us coming back for more.

 

[canyonblue]

USNFDX,

You following me all over this board.

I'm starting to think he has "Airline" envy. He my non-biped carrying friend, why troll in the pax threads, you have a stable job.

 

[tailhookah]

Everyone always seems to blame jetblue on the legacies downfall... but no one seems to take note that Southwest, Airtran, ATA, Frontier were all here prior to B6's start trying to grab market share by charging less... and this is all in part to deregulation in 78. This is market capitalism at work. It's a well known fact that the legacy carriers had flawed business plans based on fleecing business travelers and last minute walk up fares... other airlines tried to break into the market like people's express but their timing was off. B6 may have not been able to make it if it wasn't for the timing of 9/11. All other legacy airlines retrenched in the aftermath while B6 continued to rapidly expand. This is also market capitalism. If it wasn't for B6 then it would've been someone else. The airline market is different and will never go back to the way it was. 9/11 was a catalyst that sped up an inevitable process in the airline market.

Something else that baffles me is that we will probably announce losing money for 05 and yet people equate this to failure... so this must mean from what I read on this place that liquidation is right around the corner... grow up guys. Stop your bashing... it's childish...

Tail....

 

[SWA/FO]

People fail to factor in the effect of companies like Net Jets & Flex Jet taking tons of the "first class" passengers from the legacy airlines. Not saying all the paxs, but a lot of the high paying business travel.

 

[SWA/FO]

Top Ten Reasons JB is no SWA.
There isn't a $7,000 dollar (B737) interview fee!!

I see you edited your B.S. quote from before....but guess what You're still
WRONG - its free to interview at Southwest. You can try again when you get back from wheenie hut jr's all you can eat buffet.

 

[32LT10]

Something else that baffles me is that we will probably announce losing money for 05 and yet people equate this to failure... so this must mean from what I read on this place that liquidation is right around the corner... grow up guys. Stop your bashing... it's childish...

Tail....

JFK is a difficult place to hub. You are seeing the problem that flyi had at IAD. Most people don't want to fly from FL to NY to get to LA. The single hub in the NE is hard on jblu. Without additional hubs and spokes you are going to continue to see declines. Sure NY is a great place and people do go there but you need the O&D plus through traffic to survive. IMO, and that is all that it is ,without a new hub you guys are in for continued losses and struggles. CO is going to compete with you dollar for dollar and as a NY company you will find some bias against you in other parts of the states.

Will you survive? Who knows. I am no expert but I do know that I personally am no fan of the blue. Some of the things I have heard on ATC in the middle of the US from JBLU crews make me cringe. Not sure if it is inexperience or laziness but the professionalism is truly missing in many of the conversations I have heard when the weather/rides are bad.

Add to that the over 8 hour experiments and voila you are not my hero. This is my opinion and your mileage may vary.

 

[Eagleflip]

Some of the things I have heard on ATC in the middle of the US from JBLU crews make me cringe. Not sure if it is inexperience or laziness but the professionalism is truly missing in many of the conversations I have heard when the weather/rides are bad.

Such as? I'm not flaming--just curious.

 

[banger]

JFK is a difficult place to hub. You are seeing the problem that flyi had at IAD. Most people don't want to fly from FL to NY to get to LA. The single hub in the NE is hard on jblu. .

B6 has direct flights from FL-CA with many more coming. BOS is pretty big and planned to grow to a point bigger than JFK is today.

 

[Mr Hat]

This is a stupid thread.

So Jetblue lost some money, last year was a very tough year. Doesn't mean they are going to liquidate...hell the Legacy's have been losing money for what 5 years? Some longer than others. Two bad quarters and all of a sudden Jetblue, rightly so, is going to flop and we are all going to laugh. Give me a break.
Right now, I think Jetblue has a very very good product. In today's age of A.D.D TV's in the seats are a great idea. They ain't going anywhere anytime soon....and if they do it will be because of outside economic pressure like oil prices due to war in Iran or something. Their product isn't going to be what kills them. As for Jetblue not being Southwest..it's true, nobody is Southwest. But Jetblue has a headstart because their foundation was modeled after Southwest. Yes, Southwest was making a solid profit 5 years after their inception (that has continued to today, amazing) but the economic playing field was different back then....different time=different challenges. Jetblue has profited during some of the very worst in the airline industry, they had two bad quarters during a time when I had a hard time filling my car up to get to work....I understand.


PS- I don't work for Jetblue. They are a very good airline though.

 

[SWA/FO]

JetBlue has grown at a much faster rate then Southwest.

 

[fifty30retard]

USNFDX,
Jet Blue was(is) the darling of the media world and this article stood out from the rest of the articles out there.
:beer:

Was is the correct word. The media loves to build you up so they can tear you down. This article doesn't stand out more than any other. You just love to sling mud at others. Go ahead call me over sensitive that's fine.

 

[32LT10]

Such as? I'm not flaming--just curious.

Last summer I heard a JBLU crew getting a reroute from ATC. The controller was really busy due to weather deviations and they had all of us doing 90 degree turns over Nebraska for east coast spacing. The poor ATC guy could barely get a word in without being blocked. The controller told the JBLU pilot he had a reroute and let him know when he was ready. Several other transmisssions later the JBLU crewed said they were ready. The controller cleared them direct Mason City (MCW) then the rest of the route. Not an oddball VOR mind you but one you see quite often. Instead of looking at the route on a chart they asked for the identifier for MCW. The controller was really busy and this was not the time to do this.

Last week I was flying from ORD to LAX. The rides were really bad and everyone was bailing out of the high altitudes, FL330 and above to get low due to MODT TBC. The controller again was very busy and a JBLU crew was attempting to check on. He called about 3 times in quick succession with the following: "Good morning Denver Center, JetBlue XXX with you at FL350 requesting FL390 and would like the rides and winds at FL390." This again was on a very busy frq. and the guy broadcasted this 3 times in quick succession. The controller finally had time to say: "jetblue XXX rides are bad FL330 and above, everybody is coming down to FL330 and below". The jetblue pilot replied "we would like a ride report at FL390 and the winds" The controller said "I don't have anyone left up there as they all came down due to the rides" {the winds were out of the NW at around 115-130 over the rockies and just ride for tbc and mtn wave} The jetblue pilot then asked for FL390. The busy contoller gave him 390 and he climbed up, only to start asking for lower at some point in the climb. His flight plan was probably 390 and was probably economical up there but the rides and other reports were not used to evaluate the conditions. The long winded check ons in busy ATC enviroment are something he needs to learn. The lack of SA and the ability to understand controller workload are mistakes that to me reflect a lack of experience.

If they ever start ORD service and talk like that on the radio they can plan on lengthy holding at OKK, PMM, JVL or BDF and they will have time to look up the id's as the ORD ATC guys take no prisioners. :0

 

[Eagleflip]

Asking for an identifier instead of "winging it," regardless of controller workload, is prudent. I agree that the "when" to ask is critical, especially when things are busy.

I agree with your S.A. comment concerning that climb to 390. I disagree with your experience level assessment, however. The folks I work with are extremely well versed in aviation, and come from all walks of aviation life.

When it is all said and done, I'd say that we hire a very experienced group of folks. That is not to say that we don't have a few that could learn better radio manners.

 

[A350]

Further, if you work for one of the carriers who have hubs at ORD, there are plenty of guys that work for those two carriers whose radio etiquette is questionable.....therefore it must have little to do with experience as both those carriers have some of the most experienced pilots around.......

If you have to go back to last summer, you are overreacting.

A350

 

[Flopgut]

?

Why do I hear JetBlue pilots having frivolous conversations on guard so much? I hasn't been as bad in the last 6 mos or so; for a while it seemed like they treated it like a company freq. Just wondering.

 

[SWA/FO]

fifty30retard,

You are over sensitive, I'd have better ammo if I wanted to slam anybody.

 

[A350]

Guard nazi......

only a moron has a conversation on guard feq and gives his ID.....

Are you full of it?

A350

 

[J32driver]

32LT10,

I was based at ORD and flew 4 legs a day from there for the better part of the last 5 years. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone from a "Legacy" carrier say something dumb, innapropriate, or downright incorrect on the radio, I'd retire! And that goes double for the blue and grey folks that want to get a ride report every single frequency from rotation to touchdown.

Had a guppy that followed me accross the country last week from about MCI all the way to PHL. They were about 2 minutes behind us and every time they checked on they wanted a ride report... despite the fact the rides were glass smooth all over the country. It was downright comical. This crap kept up all they way through the approach in PHL!

 

[32LT10]

32LT10,

I was based at ORD and flew 4 legs a day from there for the better part of the last 5 years. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone from a "Legacy" carrier say something dumb, innapropriate, or downright incorrect on the radio, I'd retire! And that goes double for the blue and grey folks that want to get a ride report every single frequency from rotation to touchdown.

Had a guppy that followed me accross the country last week from about MCI all the way to PHL. They were about 2 minutes behind us and every time they checked on they wanted a ride report... despite the fact the rides were glass smooth all over the country. It was downright comical. This crap kept up all they way through the approach in PHL!

You missed the entire point. It was not the asking about rides that was bad. It was the really long check on during high controller workload and not splitting up the information and or taking the controllers word or advice on the rides. Know when to say when. Your not in the pattern and ER doing touch and go's. Or is it Flight Safety?

You don't care for the fact the UA guppy asked for ride a report? Did he block the other aircraft and cotrollers? Was he cleared to a point that they had to ask the controller for the identifier? Perhaps thinking down the road and being prudent is the reason we have been able to reduce turbulence injuries from what they were many years ago. We could just do like the RJ's I commute on, leave the seatbelt sign on for the entire flight smooth or not. Never make a PA about any of the information a pax would want, ie weather and arrival time. I would bet in a month of commutes the seatbelt sign might be turned off twice on a 1+15 flight.

The blueaid will someday wear off and according to the article in the news it is starting to show some dents.

 

[zonker]

Last summer I heard a JBLU crew getting a reroute from ATC. The controller was really busy due to weather deviations and they had all of us doing 90 degree turns over Nebraska for east coast spacing. The poor ATC guy could barely get a word in without being blocked. The controller told the JBLU pilot he had a reroute and let him know when he was ready. Several other transmisssions later the JBLU crewed said they were ready. The controller cleared them direct Mason City (MCW) then the rest of the route. Not an oddball VOR mind you but one you see quite often. Instead of looking at the route on a chart they asked for the identifier for MCW. The controller was really busy and this was not the time to do this.

Last week I was flying from ORD to LAX. The rides were really bad and everyone was bailing out of the high altitudes, FL330 and above to get low due to MODT TBC. The controller again was very busy and a JBLU crew was attempting to check on. He called about 3 times in quick succession with the following: "Good morning Denver Center, JetBlue XXX with you at FL350 requesting FL390 and would like the rides and winds at FL390." This again was on a very busy frq. and the guy broadcasted this 3 times in quick succession. The controller finally had time to say: "jetblue XXX rides are bad FL330 and above, everybody is coming down to FL330 and below". The jetblue pilot replied "we would like a ride report at FL390 and the winds" The controller said "I don't have anyone left up there as they all came down due to the rides" {the winds were out of the NW at around 115-130 over the rockies and just ride for tbc and mtn wave} The jetblue pilot then asked for FL390. The busy contoller gave him 390 and he climbed up, only to start asking for lower at some point in the climb. His flight plan was probably 390 and was probably economical up there but the rides and other reports were not used to evaluate the conditions. The long winded check ons in busy ATC enviroment are something he needs to learn. The lack of SA and the ability to understand controller workload are mistakes that to me reflect a lack of experience.

If they ever start ORD service and talk like that on the radio they can plan on lengthy holding at OKK, PMM, JVL or BDF and they will have time to look up the id's as the ORD ATC guys take no prisioners. :0

good lord

So in sum...JBLU pilots are inexperienced because you heard someone stepping on a controller, and someone asked for the identifier for Mason City?

You don't get out much do you? Or perhaps you just feel like making a ridiculous claim about something that you know nothing about.

Thought so.

 

[32LT10]

good lord

So in sum...JBLU pilots are inexperienced because you heard someone stepping on a controller, and someone asked for the identifier for Mason City?

You don't get out much do you? Or perhaps you just feel like making a ridiculous claim about something that you know nothing about.

Thought so.

Go back and look at the question that was asked. The poster asked for examples. Those were the two that came to mind quickly. You don't like the information, then don't read it. How do you say it is something I know nothing about? I am sitting there listening to this inane conversation while the JBLU pilot rattles on. One good thing about being intl. flying. Turn down the VHF and monitor the selcal. Aside from the occasional position report on guard or air- to air it is nice and quiet.

 

[zonker]

Go back and look at the question that was asked. The poster asked for examples. Those were the two that came to mind quickly. You don't like the information, then don't read it. How do you say it is something I know nothing about? I am sitting there listening to this inane conversation while the JBLU pilot rattles on. One good thing about being intl. flying. Turn down the VHF and monitor the selcal. Aside from the occasional position report on guard or air- to air it is nice and quiet.

Speaking of inane.

Tell you what, the next time I hear one of those 500 hour wonders over at UAL say something stupid on the radio, I'll be sure to point it out.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Funny....... there is very high probability that said B6 pilots are furloughed from a "Legacy".

 

[J32driver]

You missed the entire point...

I don't think I did. The point is someone from every single airline in the country sounds like an idiot at least once a day on the radio. Yes... especially the fine folks that fly the blue and grey planes out of ORD.... and Yes... on occasion even me!

As far as the ride reports... asking once every now and then is fine. But when you ask and the controller says, its smooth all over tonight. And then you ask the next controller no less than 5 minutes later... it gets a little stupid.

My point... this whole thing is immature and stupid. Don't rip on a whole pilot group because of something one person said or did on the radio. You don't like it much... and neither do we.

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Funny how this thread has digressed from an inane report of how the "sky is falling" around JetBlue to who's talking about what, when, where on the radio. The horse again has been beaten to death.

 

[fifty30retard]

fifty30retard,

You are over sensitive, I'd have better ammo if I wanted to slam anybody.

You guys kill me. One slightly negative word said about WN and your fangs come out. I'll hand it to you guys, you do a great job putting the muzzle on any distention among the ranks.

 

[ivauir]

Don't be obtuse. .

Sweet vocabulary dude!

 

[32LT10]

Funny....... there is very high probability that said B6 pilots are furloughed from a "Legacy".

furloughed because of B6 most likely

 

[SWA/FO]

One slightly negative word said about WN and your fangs come out

Maybe my fangs, not sure of anyones elses at SWA.