jetBlue and SWA

[Cactus73]

Just curious...

I understand the obsession with SWA. Secure job, good working environment, good pay.

Why the obession with jetBlue?

It seems some have become so arrogant that they are willing to stay at airlines such as Mesa, CHQ, TSA, XJT, etc... instead of going to "so-called" sub-par airlines like AWA, Air Tran, Spirit, Frontier, etc...

Do you guys know something I don't?

I'm not trying to start a jetBlue flame thread, just really curious why some would rather stay on a CRJ/ERJ than fly a 737/A320/757 for more money at a major airline such as .....AWA?

The attitudes on this board lately have been SWA, jetBlue, or nothing.

Am I wrong?

Flame away!

 

[cactuspilot]

There is nothing "sub-par" about Frontier. Nada....

 

[stb]

Could be an..

East coast, West coast thing.

Pilots usually dont want to commute coast to coast or relocate for a "non-major" airline.

 

[8vATE]

Just curious...Why the obession with jetBlue?

The attitudes on this board lately have been SWA, jetBlue, or nothing.

Am I wrong?

Flame away!

As others have said ... there is nothing at ALL wrong with any of the airlines listed... I'm sure there are great people working at all of them... Their cultures and pay may differ to some degree.... Some have been through bankruptcies...

JetBlue is the current media darling.... They offer a unique, high value product and have used the media buzz to great effect. SWA use to be the media darling for its first 33 years and still is to some degree.... The have an enviable position in the market with great leadership and culture.

Frontier I know very little about.... AWA has been through a terrific turnaround and offers a very good product with very good leadership.

Just learn more about the companies and make your own decision about each..

 

[Publishers]

Maybe they are betting on a model and management that is so far successful.

 

[DonVerita]

AirTran will be a Major Airline by the 1st quarter of 2005. Brand new state of the art aircraft arriving every month through 2008. Rapid advancement. A pretty good contract (something JetBlue doesn't have) that will only get better in 2005. Nothing sub-par here. If the whores of Mesa, CHQ, TSA or any of the others that believe Ornstien's venom laced kool-aid want to stay there and live in hell then so be it. Airlines such as AirTran, SWA, JetBlue, Frontier, and Spirit will continue to thrive and soon dominate the domestic market.

 

[potrack]

what does "Flame away" mean?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Back in 1999 and 2000 this board looked very different. If you weren't cheering for Delta, AA, and UAL you felt stupid. SWA diehards were told they should be envious of the Big 3. That has definitely turned around 180.

Now we are hearing the same about SWA and JetBlue. That's why I compared America West with JetBlue financials on a thread.

IMHO, no one knows the future will really look like. I think Airtran and America West will have MUCH more market share in the future. The growth is brighter at those two than some think. I don't know much about Frontier so I won't hazard a guess.

SWA is great but growth, relative to current size, will be in the single digits. Traditional worries about employee wages will continue. These concerns have been debunked in the past but I suspect the worries, this time, are more relevant when other LCC's are gaining traction. But the pension liability crisis at the big 3 will overshadow them over the next 2-5 years. Other LCC carriers with low debt and cash will put a dent into SWA growth, IMHO.

JetBlue, Airtran, and America West will see growth firmly in the double digits. What we are guessing at is the health of these LCC's and the big 3. Everyone thinks the big 3 will be on the brink for awhile (as do I). But no can imagine SWA or JetBlue in any kind of trouble. That may turn out being overly optimistic.

 

[Cactus73]

what does "Flame away" mean?

It seems that if some mention jetBlue on this board and ask questions about them, they get "flamed" by the rest.

I was wrong here as the responses have been very thoughtful.

The whole reason for the post was I have a few friends I've tried helping get on here at AWA and one has flat out told me SWA/jetBlue or nothing. Another guy that I wrote a letter for finally got an appication and has decided to wait it out on a RJ until SWA/jetBlue calls.
To be honest, I can't believe these guys and I've told them so.

There are thousands of guys on the street and they are willing to gamble their whole career on a call that may or may not ever come.

As for my "sub-par" comment, I don't think AWA, Air Tran, Spirit, Frontier, etc... are "sub-par" at all. I would have gone to any of them to get out of the fee for departure regional environment.
I think some on this board think they are "sub-par."

Just some thoughts.

 

[potrack]

I agree with you both

FlyBoeing Jets and Cactus73 have some good points.

1999-2000 everyone was all over the big three......and I was one of those guys who was "AA, UAL, Delta...that's it"

Just interesting to see it all come around.

Very fickle business....wouldn't you say?

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

How time changes things..

There was a time that a past President of SWAPA stood in front of a class of new hires and told them that they had made a mistake..
There was a time that a number of FOs at SWA left for UAL,Delta,American ect ect..

I would guess that saying the grass was greener somewhere else would have been true then..

But..As others have said..This is..and shall be a long distance race that will only be determined when we all hang up our individual blue suits on our birthday.

Until then,its ALL nothing but a huge crap shoot and we are players in a very big game..

So..remember this..

Nothing beats money in the bank..

Anything else can be taken away..

So make good choices and save for that rainy day that will always come..Sooner..Or later..

Mike

 

[potrack]

other airlines

Seems like with the legacy airlines in trouble, everyone is looking toward the LCC.

People forget about the opportunities with foreign carriers. You give up the union and jump seat benefits but Cathay, JAL, Gulf Air, etc have some pretty decent paying jobs out there.

Nice to be a 717 Capt flying around the southeastern US, but when AA opens up again I'd rather have a bunch of 744 Capt (Int'l, widebody) (CX) or 777 Capt (GF)experience when I interview.

I know upgrade to DC-10 Capt isn't as long as people think it is at Omni or other businesses like that.

Seems like the thinking is JetBlue, SWA, or Air Tran...that's it!! All great companies.

 

[TXPILOT03]

Don Verita

If the whores of Mesa, CHQ, TSA or any of the others that believe Ornstien's venom laced kool-aid want to stay there and live in hell then so be it.

First of all what makes the workers of Mesa, CHQ, or TSA whores? Secondly who the hell is Ornstien?

I worked for CHQ for 5-1/2 years because I wanted to get my PIC time and get to the next level. And I have no Idea who Ornstien is and he has nothing to do with CHQ. Nor does CHQ have anything to do with Mesa or TSA they are completely seperate companies.

 

[DonVerita]

POTRACK wrote: Nice to be a 717 Capt flying around the southeastern US,


Got schedule?
Check it and you'll see that AirTran pilots fly north to south, east to west, coast to coast. So your implication that they only fly around the "southeastern US" is wrong.


TXPILOT03,
You're right. I should not have lumped CHQ and TSA in the same sentence as Mesa. Those two have nothing to do with Ornstein. To answer your question though...Ornstein is the head honcho over at Mesa who has been labeled the next Lorenzo. He is the devil reincarnate if there ever was one.

 

[TXPILOT03]

Gotcha...

 

[Les Paul]

You all can slice and dice it all you want. The fact remains that many of the people on this forum that are at Jetblue, Frontier, Airtran, and yes even Southwest, did in fact apply at one of the "REAL" airlines in the late 90's and did not get hired and settled at their particular airline.

Now those same people are having their little moment in the sun, and are passing their fortunate LUCK as some sort of career genius master plan at work.

Sorry kiddies... I'm not buying it.

Les Paul

 

[Ted Striker]

You all can slice and dice it all you want. The fact remains that many of the people on this forum that are at Jetblue, Frontier, Airtran, and yes even Southwest, did in fact apply at one of the "REAL" airlines in the late 90's and did not get hired and settled at their particular airline.

Now those same people are having their little moment in the sun, and are passing their fortunate LUCK as some sort of career genius master plan at work.

Sorry kiddies... I'm not buying it.

Les Paul

Les,

Glad to see that you still have that giant stick jammed straight in your a$$. Congratulations to you! Where have you been, I haven't seen you on here in awhile. Off yelling at Cub Scouts and kicking puppies?

Ted

 

[Les Paul]

Les,

Glad to see that you still have that giant stick jammed straight in your a$$. Congratulations to you! Where have you been, I haven't seen you on here in awhile. Off yelling at Cub Scouts and kicking puppies?

Ted

Quite frankly unlike many of the complete computer addicted losers that LIVE on and for internet chat forums, I do not.

Just thought i would look and see if this place had changed. The forum software is a different format, but you losers are the same underachieving, excuse making, denial ridden, internet geek addicted punks that just can't get out and interact and be real humans in a real world.

Regardless, what I say has truth, and that is why you hurt when you read it.

Nice "Talking" to you.

Les Paul