Jetblue and Lufthansa to Code-Share

[bluesideup340]

Because the ability for industry to dispose of jb pilots would set a precednece for the rest of us.....

The JB senority list is not an island.... we are all in this together...

Thanks for your concern but it is not needed.

I never said ALPA was all victorious...

So why did you bring the MOU into the debate. Was it not to illustrate the importance of having ALPA on the property to prevent cross atlantic whipsawing? Are you now saying the MOU was nothing but a meeting of the mind with some nice but meaningless document that was signed?
Why did you use the MOU as an argument for ALPA if it did not accomplish anything?

What effectiveness has the PVC shown that they would be better than BoB... or are you simply saying the PVC and BoB are show ponies?

The BoB was a group of jB Pilots that made use of their right of free speech. They campaigned on keeping a direct relationship with jB leadership without a interference of a third party.
The PVC on the other hand is an elected group of Pilots repesenting the group. As such the PVC would be the group working "mit der Vereinigung Cockpit" when the time is right.
That is all. So I am not sure how and where you came up with show ponies.

If I were a JB pilot I'd either be smart and concerned or arrogant and in denial......

If you were, but your are not. Instead you used in our post a lot of drama and emotions without facts and reason to promote ALPA. Like the Bush Administration using the Terror Threat to manage the population to secure the re-election in 2004.

Perhaps you are right.... I think a fully loaded A340 with 25-50% passenger who paid for a FRA-JFK-LAX ticket combined with 50-75% of new pax flying JFK-LAX would make good money... but I am a pilot not a airline biz guy....

Let's do this, you have one A340 with a departure in FRA at 10am. Build a schedule for this one aircraft to depart FRA every day from Mo-Fri at the same time (10am), with a min turn times of 1.5 hrs. at every stop, and we take the route you suggested. FRA-JFk-LAX-JFK-FRA-JFK-LAX-JFK-FRA-etc. for the 5 days.

LH crews based in the US? No problem.. nothing ICE and the US govt can't solve with work permits....

I am not saying this will happen..... but you have to wonder why LH likes jetblue so much... and the EU wants foreign ownership laws and a cabatoge lifted....

Keep in mind, the EU is expanding to the old east bloc... anyone with EU status can work in any EU country... LH has to simply offer employment to east bloc citizens who love to work in the USA on visas for cheap wages...

LH likes jB because of the product. Matter of fact, they like it soooo much they are looking into using the concept in the EU to fight the Ryan's, Wizzz, EasyJet's, etc. Maybe JetBlue is soon to operated out of FRA. Althought we need to change the name. JetBlue is not a good name to sell in Germany because of the "Being Blue" meaning. However, it would be funny.

Rez really, if it is that easy to get a visa and have low cost labor to work in the USA as you suggest, why isn't United, Spirit, or anyone else doing this right now?
Neither foreign ownership nor cabotage would change US immigration and labor law. Get real

Then again...... what can JB pilots do about it.... not much.. that is why JB pilots will deny the possible incoming.......... hopefully nothing will happen and you guys will have decades....

What you should have done is organized a while ago.... it takes years to gain effective representation....

A real question is.... who on the JB seniority list is watching all of this LH activity, foreign ownership and cabatoge... who is reporting these events to you guys....? API? Reuters? Do these news outlets care about JB pilots?

Again thanks for your concern and the nice discussion. I do respect your commitment to ALPA and your support for the organization. I just can not buy into the sales pitch of slogans and threats, "you better organize otherwise you are doomed" without substance.

 

[Blue Dude]

LH likes jB because of the product. Matter of fact, they like it soooo much they are looking into using the concept in the EU to fight the Ryan's, Wizzz, EasyJet's, etc. Maybe JetBlue is soon to operated out of FRA. Althought we need to change the name. JetBlue is not a good name to sell in Germany because of the "Being Blue" meaning. However, it would be funny.

How funny would it be if it were LuftBlue operating A320's and E190's out of Frankfurt, with American ownership? What if a dozen JetBlue A320's and E190's were "sold" to the new division to start it? What if the "new" company used JetBlue's new reservation system and back office, JetBlue's code, and JetBlue's sim center? But with German pilots on their own list and contract? I think the idea is "hilarious".

 

[Pilotbob3]

Blue bayou,

Are you or were you a Band of Blue member?

Blue Bayou,

I ask again, Are you or were you a Band of Blue member?

 

[bluesideup340]

How funny would it be if it were LuftBlue operating A320's and E190's out of Frankfurt, with American ownership? What if a dozen JetBlue A320's and E190's were "sold" to the new division to start it? What if the "new" company used JetBlue's new reservation system and back office, JetBlue's code, and JetBlue's sim center? But with German pilots on their own list and contract? I think the idea is "hilarious".

Blue Dude the name JetBlue or LuftBlue would not work in Germany. However, if someone would try that would be funny. BTW, translating Blue Dude into Germany means Drunk Guy. Do see what I mean.

But back to your post, LH could start operations without our Jets or reservation system? And of course the Pilots in Germany working for the German division would have to be German or European unless you have an EU work permit and an JAA ATPL. All of this for the same reason JetBlue Pilots in the US are US citizen or with green card and US ATP.

 

[Blue Dude]

Blue Dude the name JetBlue or LuftBlue would not work in Germany. However, if someone would try that would be funny. BTW, translating Blue Dude into Germany means Drunk Guy. Do see what I mean.

But back to your post, LH could start operations without our Jets or reservation system? And of course the Pilots in Germany working for the German division would have to be German or European unless you have an EU work permit and an JAA ATPL. All of this for the same reason JetBlue Pilots in the US are US citizen or with green card and US ATP.

The point is that there's nothing preventing our brand and equipment operating anywhere else in the world without our pilots. Nothing at all.

 

[Blue Dude]

The BoB was a group of jB Pilots that made use of their right of free speech. They campaigned on keeping a direct relationship with jB leadership without a interference of a third party.

Please. The use of "free speech" in this case involved intentionally misrepresenting material facts, i.e. lying, in order to push an agenda. This even after it was pointed out that the information being put out on the BoB website was misleading and in some cases dead wrong. To my knowledge, the JBPA never intentionally lied. And the "third party" was the JetBlue pilots themselves, with no outside component. Who was the "third" party? I only count two.

The characterization of the BoB as a neutral, fact-finding body merely expressing first amendment rights is wide of the mark. You have every right to express your opinion. You have no right to lie to force through your agenda. Big, big difference. Don't try it again.

 

[bluesideup340]

The point is that there's nothing preventing our brand and equipment operating anywhere else in the world without our pilots. Nothing at all.

And there never will be anything that would prevent a Neelman or Barger to start another JetBlue like operation anywhere else in the world.
What you are asking for is unrealistic.

 

[bluesideup340]

Please. The use of "free speech" in this case involved intentionally misrepresenting material facts, i.e. lying, in order to push an agenda. This even after it was pointed out that the information being put out on the BoB website was misleading and in some cases dead wrong. To my knowledge, the JBPA never intentionally lied. And the "third party" was the JetBlue pilots themselves, with no outside component. Who was the "third" party? I only count two.

The characterization of the BoB as a neutral, fact-finding body merely expressing first amendment rights is wide of the mark. You have every right to express your opinion. You have no right to lie to force through your agenda. Big, big difference. Don't try it again.

Two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions.
If you have events of lying by the BoB, please share.
And what does that mean, don't try this again? Is it the third party that I should be worry about? Do they break knee caps?

 

[Blue Dude]

And there never will be anything that would prevent a Neelman or Barger to start another JetBlue like operation anywhere else in the world.
What you are asking for is unrealistic.

Not a "JetBlue-like" operation, but a JetBlue operation, period. Right this minute they could start an airline using JetBlue equipment, staff, facilities, brand, code, management and ownership, but not JetBlue pilots. This is what scope language is meant to limit.

 

[Blue Dude]

Two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions.
If you have events of lying by the BoB, please share.
And what does that mean, don't try this again? Is it the third party that I should be worry about? Do they break knee caps?

Specifically, the BoBs made claims about insurance, retirement plans and JBPA personnel that were patently false. I would love to share details, but the BoB website was taken down within minutes of the vote being concluded. Draw conclusions from that as well.

"Don't try this again" means what it says. You got away with it once, but you've lost your integrity in the attempt and it won't work a second time. Simply put, your collective word is no longer trustworthy. It's not a threat, just a notification that the "fool me once..." tenet is operative.