Jet for Jobs - NWA Airlinks

[JohnDoe]

dondk:
"I don't quite buy there is not enough market for 70 seater's.. There are markets, the question is profitability. The same argument was used for CRJ's, Avro's and baby 9's... There are plenty of markets that need more than a CRJ and less than a baby 9. There are also markets where a baby 9 is overkill and we know which markets those are."


I agree with you for the most part (although I think the 90-100 seat is the greater market). Could be it was just smoke being blown around, who knows. But it has been discussed as an issue.

 

[Humty72]

I may be wrong, but I thought NWA only had just over 900 left on the street.

.

782 on the street...

 

[flap operator]

Surplus 1 - you obviously didn't get the sarcasm in my post... regarding OUR best interests. I know very well that the NWA pilots care ZERO about what happens at XJ or PNCL. We all realize that... we are REGIONAL pilots and remember that everyday we go to work.

This issue is a huge sharp double edged sword. We need jobs at the mainlines for our future, but the mainlines are the ones controling our carreer progression as we speak.

I'm just going to sit back and watch it unfold. Then form an opinion when all the information is out. Until then... have fun with the speculation conspiracy theory posts.

FO

 

[avrodriverj85]

Hey avrodriver:
I answered your question, so how about you answer mine (or are you only capable of spewing factless, emotion-based propaganda??) Exactly why do you feel the 70 seaters belong to Mesaba and Pinnacle?? You have never (except for the few avros) done that kind of flying, and nothing is being taken away from you. How is mainline doing the 70 seat flying screwing the Airlink's?? Unless something changes with mainline's contract, you wouldn't be getting it anyway.


John - Here's your answer... by NWA pilots flying the 70 seater, it effects my companys growth and future. Haven't you been following the RJDC? And besides, are you implying that because we have not flown 70 seaters, we are somehow incapable or inexperienced to do the job? I know that baby 9' or ORJ (original regional jet) is so high-tech, but give me a break!


If the pay and workrules are right, I'd go back to flying a 172.

Yeah, sure you would. Your ego wouldn't allow it.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"And besides, are you implying that because we have not flown 70 seaters, we are somehow incapable or inexperienced to do the job? I know that baby 9' or ORJ (original regional jet) is so high-tech, but give me a break!"


Boy......you just latch onto any little tidbit and try to turn it into a sensationalized piece of writing don't you (the national inquirer and other gossip magazines would be proud of you).

You know darn well by my phrase "haven't done that kind of flying" I am referring to the 70 seat MARKET flying. After all, that is what we are talking about right? If you had read my other post, you would have seen the same thing there. I am referring to the fact that you haven't been given any 70 seat flying, therefore you aren't losing anything. That statement has absolutely nothing to do with flying ability, or inexperience, one aircraft being harder to fly than another, or anything of that sort (and most rational people would have seen that).

As far as your answer about not getting 70 seat flying, and it affecting your companies growth and future: well, that is a given now isn't it. It explains why you are upset about it, but it doesn't explain why you think it "belongs" to Airlink and not mainline. If it was 80 seat flying, would that belong to you as well? How about 100 seat flying? You get what you can negotiate for. Mainline was successful in negotiating anything over 56 seats.

If the roles were reversed, your union and company would be doing EXACTLY the same thing. Again, I'm sure you don't have a problem with the scope you were able to negotiate for against Big Sky.

Now, onto my supposed ego.....I am guessing that you wrote that in response to my alleged "bashing" of pilot skills, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. But I don't recall displaying any source of "mainline" or any other arrogance at all.

The only solution I see to the "separate companies with different contracts with significantly different benefits being represented by the same union" problem is to not have separate companies. But I think we all know that it will be a cold day in hades (sp) before management allows that to happen.

 

[festus]

Posted by flap operator:

I know very well that the NWA pilots care ZERO about what happens at XJ or PNCL. We all realize that...

Yikes, another guy who speaks for everyone!

 

[AnimalTale]

Posted by flap operator:

I know very well that the NWA pilots care ZERO about what happens at XJ or PNCL. We all realize that...
!

That is horse crap. I can tell u this. NWA-MEC cares about all the pilots at the pcl and xj. They supported Mesaba 100% in their strike efforts. PCL did too.

The more u guys buy into this whipsawing the more u will hate your careers.

The boys in the regional leval SHOULD want 70 seaters to go to mainline. I do not understand why some of the regioal pilots detest this idea.

The more planes in mainline, the better your chances of getting your dream job. I know we all dreamed about flying for the big boys, not the regionals when we were kids.

Lets preserve the flying and lets preserve our workrules and rights for a GREAT career.

Adios-

 

[dondk]

The more planes in mainline, the better your chances of getting your dream job. I know we all dreamed about flying for the big boys, not the regionals when we were kids.

If your even suggesting that the majors will "pay" major wages for what is simply termed a "regional jet" you sir need to be drug tested!

Heck, I don't have a problem with NWA getting the 70/90 seat jet's. That will get the furloughee's off the street and maybe in 3-5 years there "may" be a job opening once again.

Do I believe for 1 second that NWA is going to agree to pay a CRJ CA 150K a year? a FO 100K a year? not in this lifetime. That is approximately what a DC-9 Pilot makes currently. A baby 9 is just slighty larger/heavier than the 70/90 seat version of a RJ. The difference is the CRJ can go further, faster and higher.

The only problem with mainline getting all the SJ's.. they will eventually move into the regional market and therefore take back or away the markets that were regional in nature. Why not put a 70 seat aircraft in a place where a 50 seat is always oversold? Heck if they just fill up 50 seats on a 70 seat aircraft they are already showing a profit (as long as the overhead is reasonable).

What happens to the regionals then? they cease to exist? how does one then get the experience to make it to the majors if the stepping stone or regionals are gone?

Maybe we take this one step further, since we are dreaming...

Regionals go away, all jets to mainline.. Left are some small prop operators and a bunch of pilots who want jobs. Can you say PFT once again.. I am sure a few schools will jump on the bandwagon to "help" potential pilots get that "jet training" to work for the (name the major) for a fee... Sounds like what some places are doing for the regionals now, huh? I am sure your going to be the first to support that 5 years from now when regionals don't exist that the new hire FO in your mainline (RJ) is a 300 hr pilot who paid his/her way to the seat. It is lowering the bar to the majors.. not raising it..

then again that is a dream.. probably would not happen.. the mainline unions would make sure of that.

 

[DoinTime]

The only problem with mainline getting all the SJ's.. they will eventually move into the regional market and therefore take back or away the markets that were regional in nature. Why not put a 70 seat aircraft in a place where a 50 seat is always oversold? Heck if they just fill up 50 seats on a 70 seat aircraft they are already showing a profit (as long as the overhead is reasonable).

There is no such thing as routes being inherently "regional." All flying under the Northwest code designator and with a red tail are either performed by mainline pilots or they are operated under contract. Mesaba nor Pinnacle have a rightful claim on any of this flying as their own.

 

[dondk]

There is no such thing as routes being inherently "regional." All flying under the Northwest code designator and with a red tail are either performed by mainline pilots or they are operated under contract. Mesaba nor Pinnacle have a rightful claim on any of this flying as their own.

I unfortunately disagree.. XJ has some EAS service, that is theirs not NWA's. Some stations that are/have been XJ/PCL stations connected the hub are XJ/PCL routes.

I seriously doubt that NWA is going to put a -9 on a DTW-ELM, ERI, TOL, PLN: MSP-INL,TVF,YQT; or a MEM-TUP, MSL,PAH routes.. My point is "some" routes are specifically regional routes, they have been operated by a regional for years, some basically forever. Some of those routes actually belong to the specific carrier. Before Express I or II, or XJ joined the ranks of NWA they had there own specific routes which were given to them by the DOT. Unless they sold them, the specific carrier still owns them.

Now while I think if XJ or PCL will never digress back to only flying their own routes, it does say that we (the regionals) are way too far in bed with our mainline couterparts. If they ever pulled the plug or ran us out of the flying we are doing.. there is not much left over.

 

[flap operator]

Festus and animal tale...

Yup, they supported us during our contract efforts and I appreciate that. However, they're MEC supported us, who unfortunately does NOT speak for everyone in the pilot group. So, I'm still left with a bit of skepticism with the fact that all pilots at NWA actually care about us at XJ or PNCL. And why should they? They've got their own careers to worry about. After all, haven't we already established that the NWA MEC and pilots will do whatever they possibly can to get as much for themselves as possible?

AvrodriveRJ85 - dude... RELAX! you're getting way too worked up about something we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. It's a frekaing proposal in it's simplest form. We don't know the outcome yet, so why get all worked up?



FO