Jet Blue vs. ATA - Please enlighten me!!

[ATA75Pilot]

Race Pilot.....

My two cents....

Definitely go to the interview.

However, any job offer from JB will happen late in your training here at ATA. You will probably have to make the decision the night before your checkride.

If the left seat is a priority....go with JB. I've been here just over 4 years. When I got hired I was fed the old "left seat in two years line" as people were indeed upgrading that fast when I got hired. In fact, our junior most 73 Captain has only been here 8 months longer than me. He has been a Captain for 6 months or so and like TriStar_dvr, I conservatively estimate another 2 maybe 3 years for me to have a shot at the left seat....thats 6 years plus. My point in this long winded story is that anyone getting hired now at ATA should plan on the right seat indefinitely. I don't see any great growth here in the future and the guys above me won't be leaving for the other Majors anytime soon. There are alot of PO'd FO's now that are angry at not being in the left seat because they believed in what they were told at the interview.

Other points to consider....

Given the choice I wouldn't work for an airline without union backing, preferably ALPA. All negatives aside, the support I get from ALPA on Medical and Legal issues is worth every dime I pay in dues.

JB sounds like a fantastic place to work on a day to day comparison with working here (I have a few friends there myself) but if things get tough in the future - there would be no system of checks and balances to protect the pilot group.

ATA is coming up on 30 years in the biz. Not a bad track record if you are looking for long term career stability (an oxymoron in this industry for sure). I'm in no way saying JB won't be around that long...but aviation history has a way of repeating itself. The past is littered with the corpses of carriers that were in the same position JB is today.

ATA will give you a variety of flying types here. If you want the chance to touch down in Kuwait City, Shannon, Sicily, Diego Garcia, Japan, Trondhiem, Germany, Hawaii, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Greece, Bosnia, The Azores, London, Spain, then here is where to be. I'm extremely glad that I was afforded the opportunity to experience that type of flying in my career.

That being said....if you just want to stay domestic then you can do that also (in fact I am in 73 school right now because I want a change for a couple years).

Good Luck in whatever path you choose. The only thing I've learned in this career is this :

You will never know whether the choices you made were the right ones until the day you turn 60 years of age.

 

[Lumber Yak]

With the majors likely not hiring for the next 3-5 years, both choices are very good. At least you will get access to some great technology - after flying the L1011 for ATA - you could fly either the brand-new 737-800 (with winglets) or the 757-200/300. And of course, Jetblue sports a growing fleet of high-tech A320s - very nice and ergonomic flightdecks.

You win either way - glass is the way to go! Good luck...

 

[TriStar_drvr]

At least you will get access to some great technology - after flying the L1011 for ATA

Those of us who fly the L-1011 already are flying some great technology.

 

[Race Pilot]

Thanks again guys!!

Again, guys, thanks very much for the input. I am about twelve hours away from my AF retirement ceremony as I sit here and I feel so blessed to have these options out there. I WILL go to the interview with JB on the 2nd, and I WILL go to class with ATA on the 7th. I will continue to absorb as much information as I can about both airlines (I already know a good deal about ATA, thanks to many on this board) and if I get an offer from JB prior to my ATA checkride, then I think I will have enough info to do what is right for me and my family. As I (and others) have said, either way I don't think I can lose. Both are great companies for different reasons but I think I could be happy at either. Thanks again.

 

[dgs]

It more than money

Race Pilot -- Ironically, if all you are interested in is the pay scales, then despite the fact that you may make more money at jetBlue (both in the short and long term), you probably won't be happy here. Being part of the jetBlue team is bigger than the money. Our core values are Safety, Caring, Integrity, Fun, and Passion. There is a huge reward for those who live those values and who have faith in jetBlue's future. If you are all about pay, time off, and work rules, I suspect you may be in trouble at your interview.

For those who are willing to take the risk of joining a startup, and who believe in what we are doing--the potential for reward is incredible. The trick is that the success of the company, and your ultimate financial success will be determined by your selflessness and willingness to contribute to the company on a daily basis. The leadership of this company has been very generous in rewarding those who are willing to give to the company to make it a success. It's a win-win for everybody.

I know many of you will have a difficult time understanding this perspective. I also suspect that I'll get a few flames for this perspective, but it is one of our keys to success. It's our passion for serving our customers that sets us apart--not a passion for money. The money and benefits have come and will continue to come as we continue to please our customers.

You may not be as focused on money as your original post sounds, so if I've put words in your mouth, I apologize. If you stayed in the AF until retirement, then I know you know what being on a team and contributing to a greater goal is all about. I just wanted to make sure you knew where we are coming from. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Race Pilot]

dgs,

Don't worry about putting words in my mouth....you did but I certainly understand. That's one thing about the internet. It's a great tool but it's so easy to misunderstand someone when you can't see their face or hear the way the speak. All you can do is read the words and they are sometimes easy to misperceive.

As you noted, I am getting ready to retire from the Air Force. So I certainly do know what self-sacrifice is all about. Just ask many of the guys out there who could not put up with that sort of thing past the 10, 12, or 14 year point and left to go to the airlines. I stuck it out, tried to (and in many ways did) make a difference, and am very proud and honored to have given my country that time. I am not, nor have I ever been, about the money. I trust God with my life, including the financial part, and He has made it work out well for me so far.

I applaude you for speaking out for what Jet Blue is all about. That is the kind of organization I am looking for. I love hard work and I love helping people so it is the kind of place I need to be. What I was saying earlier though is that ATA seems to be the same kind of place. People enjoying helping people. Are there unhappy people at ATA, sure there is. Are there unhappy people at JB, yes. I had one interview with me at ATA because he had issues with JB, but I didn't let that sway me from trying to get an interview there. These were exactly the kinds of inputs that I was looking for when I made my original post. I want to know the "big picture", not just what my monthly paycheck will be or what my retirement check will buy the road. I have a wife and two kids, one of them going to college next year and the other three years behind, so these things are important to me, but they are not everything.

Again, thanks for the response and although I think you may have read me the wrong way initially, I think you can now see more clearly the type of person I am. And even if I end up at ATA for the rest of my career, I wish Jet Blue nothing but continued success and I hope that all the people there continue to do well. May you always have a tailwind and may your skies always be "Jet Blue"!!

 

[KC-10 Driver]

If only everyone on this board could be so cordial and intelligent...

It's nice to see a discussion regarding the relative merits of two different companies that doesn't turn into a flame fest.

Race, whereever you end up, Good Luck!

 

[ATA75Pilot]

That's just the kind of pilots that ATA and JB attract.

(tounge firmly planted in cheek for the humor impaired)

 

[Two-9-9-TwoSet]

at my last job, management pilots regularly read on this forum and have sought out people who are "unfaithful" to their company and gave them griefs, hope ATA isn't one.

good luck on your decision

 

[Race Pilot]

Unfaithful??

Who can say I am unfaithful? I haven't even started the job yet. As I have said throughout this thread, I haven't made any decision other than the fact that I will go to the Jet Blue interview, see what they have to offer, then go to class at ATA and work my tail off to be the best L-1011 driver I can be. If JB calls later and offers a job, I'll either say yes or no based on the experiences I had at the interview, my ATA experiences to date, and what I have learned about both companies through research and personal interviews.

As a matter of fact, I had a choice of airlines to fly to my interview in NYC. Who am I taking? ATA of course. What better way to get ahead of the game in learning their culture than to fly on them before going to class.

Again, as noted above. I have been faithful to the US Air Force for over twenty years, so whoever gets me for good will be getting a pilot who will work hard to help make their airline the best that it can be.