Jeppesen / NACO, ? WHO CARES!

[unreal]

you don't need to pay for charts as a cfi. just tell your students to buy current charts. thats what i did.

Would love to. Unfortunately, it's company policy for instructors to maintain current charts. I need a pay raise.

 

[avbug]

sounds like soemone works for jepp,

No, just someone who's been flyng and instructing for some time.

In my opinion, the overall jepp quality, and certainly customer service, has gone downhill over the years. I wouldn't want to work for them (wouldn't want to quit flying, either). They're still the most used, however, and they still
make a good product.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I prefer jepp, and even when supplied NOS/NACO charts, I bought and carried my own Jepps. To each his own. Jepp is far more universal, far more widespread, and far more consistant. Someone who intends to go on to work in a professional cockpit, especially one outside the US, an airline cockpit, or one using electronic data, might do well to invest in the effort to learn and use Jepp.

I agree Avbug!! Jepp is the way to go you said about what I did above!

 

[NW_Pilot]

No, just someone who's been flyng and instructing for some time.

In my opinion, the overall jepp quality, and certainly customer service, has gone downhill over the years. I wouldn't want to work for them (wouldn't want to quit flying, either). They're still the most used, however, and they still
make a good product.

Yea, you call them for charts they never call back!!!! Sure if I was a 135 operator they would call me back asap!!!

 

[JediNein]

I like the fact that Jepp will put the frequency and ident of the VOR that is just on the next page on the current page. No flipping the chart to figure out the next VOR then back, until it is time to flip the chart.

I like not having to check NOTAMs from 6 months ago when the FAA made a change to the chart and didn't update the NACO charts. Jepp generally gets those changes in within 2 weeks. There's been many times when my NACO chart user client hasn't checked NOTAMs and my Jepp chart has different minimums.

Jepp's Quality and customer service have gone downhill since Boeing bought 'em again. Hopefully they'll regain them once Boeing sells them, again.

The NACO cost is within $2.00 of Jepp's Airway Manual Express to have the same charts. So whatdya want? Check NOTAMs for everything, or have a really good chance of having current information when you're diverting to an unplanned alternate?

 

[landlover]

I like the fact that Jepp will put the frequency and ident of the VOR that is just on the next page on the current page. No flipping the chart to figure out the next VOR then back, until it is time to flip the chart.

I like not having to check NOTAMs from 6 months ago when the FAA made a change to the chart and didn't update the NACO charts. Jepp generally gets those changes in within 2 weeks. There's been many times when my NACO chart user client hasn't checked NOTAMs and my Jepp chart has different minimums.

Jepp's Quality and customer service have gone downhill since Boeing bought 'em again. Hopefully they'll regain them once Boeing sells them, again.

The NACO cost is within $2.00 of Jepp's Airway Manual Express to have the same charts. So whatdya want? Check NOTAMs for everything, or have a really good chance of having current information when you're diverting to an unplanned alternate?

i believe the comair crew that crashed in kentucky had a "current" jepp chart that was out dated. while the noca chart was up to speed.

 

[avbug]

i believe the comair crew that crashed in kentucky had a "current" jepp chart that was out dated. while the noca chart was up to speed.

Your point is exactly what?

The use of instrument charts had nothing to do with lining up on the wrong runway, current or not current, NACO or Jepp...really made no difference. The crew selected the wrong runway and failed to verify it despite ample resources and opportunities to do so. The presence, or use, or type of chart in use in that case is really irrelevant.

Perhaps of some interest might be the use of different chart types which, while having nothing to do with the event itself, is an unwise and potentially unsafe practice of it's own accord.

How does one have a "current" chart that is "outdated?" It's either one or the other...not both. If you mean the information is outdated...no, the chart did not supply information saying the runway was longer than it was...the crew failed to perform basic checks and took off on the wrong runway, period. Latet minute changes to lighting data wouldn't have saved them from their own failure to perform basic proceedures, such as verifying that they were on the correct runway before departure.

 

[landlover]

Your point is exactly what?

The use of instrument charts had nothing to do with lining up on the wrong runway, current or not current, NACO or Jepp...really made no difference. The crew selected the wrong runway and failed to verify it despite ample resources and opportunities to do so. The presence, or use, or type of chart in use in that case is really irrelevant.

Perhaps of some interest might be the use of different chart types which, while having nothing to do with the event itself, is an unwise and potentially unsafe practice of it's own accord.

How does one have a "current" chart that is "outdated?" It's either one or the other...not both. If you mean the information is outdated...no, the chart did not supply information saying the runway was longer than it was...the crew failed to perform basic checks and took off on the wrong runway, period. Latet minute changes to lighting data wouldn't have saved them from their own failure to perform basic proceedures, such as verifying that they were on the correct runway before departure.

avbug you need to read what i quoted again. jedi nein was saying that jepps get updated more often. all i did was point out that this was infact not 100% true and may have contributed to an accident. i know that was not the only reason that rj crashed, but like many aircraft accidents, many many small things happen to make a real big bad accident. the jepp airport diagram for lexington had a mis-labled taxi way if i remember correctly. anyone can see how this can contribute to a mistake.

 

[JediNein]

jedi nein was saying that jepps get updated more often. all i did was point out that this was infact not 100% true

Last I checked "a really good chance" doesn't equal "100%". Jepps are still updated more frequently than NACOs. Jepp's business depends on it, NACO has 14 guys doing the job (2003 numbers - might be 12 guys now).

I teach my students to set the heading bug to the runway heading before departure and if they don't line up, get off the runway and figure out why. I've been doing this since my first instructor showed me the trick. Sometimes all you learn from an accident is validation of your procedures.

 

[avbug]

Jedi Nein cited NOTAMS for currency, and jepp has a better system for updating via the notams, as well as more frequent chart updates; that's a fact.

The introduction of the Lexington incident however, is nonsensical; the crew did not take off from an improperly charted taxiway. They took off from a runway that was too short and for which they were not cleared, contrary to their own performance data, despite having two pilots and multiple references to determine their heading and the runway in use. They failed a basic duty...no pathetic attempt to pawn that off on a chart, a tower controller, or anybody or anything else changes the fact that the crew in failing to do their duty killed everyone.

Your effort at clouding that issue by introducing it out of context to an unrelated discusson helps no one. Remember that.