Jepp Class B Charts & 200 Knots

[av8er2]

Ever thought about why the heck it is 200kts. I can't say I have read why it is this way.

It sure sounds like most have a tough time figuring out exact postion. Sounds like the FAA needs to make it easier for the pilots to figure out postion if they are going to enforce this rule. There are many other things to focus on.

Most aircraft are very busy doing other safety related issues and should not be spending a lot of time wondering when to slow to 200. Half the time it will mess up the controller.

 

[stknrdr]

200kts

We use the jepp Class-B plate. If everyone is consistent with the rule, the sequencing will work for the controller that's not dialed-in on his regs. 5 miles in-trail into bigger airports can be seen on the TCAS to help you know if you need to slow more, or wait to slow to approach speed late to keep the interval. Let's face it, there's enough gotchas out there, why would you adhere to the 250 rule and not the 200 rule? And no FO is going to poke the sleeping ATC dog with a sharp stick when my name is in the flightplan box. 200 under the B it's professional.....period.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Ignore it in Atlanta and you'll get slammed. Rules are rules. What's that extra 50 knots going to do for you, especially over the short periof of time you're under the Class B. Do the math and you'll see it's only seconds saved versus 200 KIAS. Is that worth a violation or a=chewing?

Yea, and they will also slam ya for doing over 250 KIAS between 10,000 and 11,000, as the Class B there extends all the way up to 11,000. Those Howie Keefe VFR charts sure are helpful for places like ATL. I wish we had them where I work now.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Tbone
Use the ILS DME...the antennas are pretty close to geo ref center.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Inside class B at 11,000? Full speed ahead!

Cool-Hand,

There is no specific speed-limit for operation WITHIN class-B airspace (regardless of the altitude).

Therefore, you simply need only comply with 250 below 10. If class-B airspace extends above 10,000 it's perfectly legal to accelerate above 250 within it.

Here's 91.117. If you find a regulation that states otherwise please let me know:

Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).


(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.


(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).


(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Thanks Bender. I am not sure where I got that from. I remembered it being an issue at one point when I used to fly into/out of ATL all the time. Cheers!

Cool-Hand,

There is no specific speed-limit for operation WITHIN class-B airspace (regardless of the altitude).

Therefore, you simply need only comply with 250 below 10. If class-B airspace extends above 10,000 it's perfectly legal to accelerate above 250 within it.

Here's 91.117. If you find a regulation that states otherwise please let me know:

Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).


(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.


(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).


(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

 

[ClassG]

I'm going to bump this one back up again.

Based on 91.117 (c):


(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots.....

it COULD be that as long as the aircraft is not within the airspace which defines an airport area "designated for an airport" which is underlying the Bravo, then one COULD exceed 200, KIAS.

Any thoughts?

My understanding is that this actually refers to the "Class B airspace area designated for (the Class B) airport." Anyone read it differently? It's very ambiguously written, but then, it's an FAR.

This discussion came up recently during a flight and I can't COMPLETELY dismiss the possibilty, except that EVERY conversation (ground school and otherwise) I have ever had about this reg has concluded that you can NOT exceed 200 below a Class B shelf unless the aircraft limitations require it.


ClassG

 

[G100driver]

Stick with your training. Too many people have been busted trying to overthink this.

I will agree, it is rather poorly written.

 

[Count Dracula]

How about the FAA publishing the required speed on an IFR Arrival into a Class B area. They publish the altitude restrictions at certain intersections, why not the speeds and take the guess work out of whether you are under Class B airspace or not. Otherwise, I am required to have the Arrival and Class B Chart out during a descent into densly populated airspace.

 

[hawkerjet]

LA has several gotcha's if you're not familiar. Blast off out of VNY to reposition to SNA, LGB or some other southern field and you will most likely intercept V186. There is a small stretch between VNY VOR and ADAMM intersection that falls underneath Class B when your level at 5000.
Coming back to the LA Basin from CRQ or SAN when the controller descends you below 10,000 to 7000 abeam SNA is another. I have marked these positions manually with my GPS which was a pain in the a&#. I've known of several 135 pilots bolo'ing their check rides with the Feds as a result of the 2 locations I mentioned above. It should be marked better on the victor airways.

 

[CarjCapt]

Watch out for HPN area in New York class B and CLT they have busted some for the speed limit under class B.

Does Houston still have the "no speed limit" program???

 

[TXGold]

Houston has done away with the no speed limit "program"!