JBLU CONTRACT, round two.."DING"

[ATR-DRIVR]

"warning Will Robinson, Warning"!!!

 

[pilotyip]

college degree

and you do not need a college degree to make that post.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

How about Joe Allen's in Abilene, TX... I love this guy, 2dogs... Let me see here, for the last three years, the numbers of people living below the poverty line has increased-- I guess the 14000 or so on furlough are included in this count. How about the classy guy who decided to leave JBLU and return to CAL... He's back on the streets again... So what are you whining about? If you're so displeased, leave and go sell cars!!!

 

[G4G5]

I am under the impression that all he wants is what he was promissed.

Not to mention a cost of living pay increase. Sounds to me like a legitimate beef.

I prefer the Iron Works in AUS

 

[FNG320]

I am under the impression that all he wants is what he was promissed.

Not to mention a cost of living pay increase. Sounds to me like a legitimate beef.

Exactly right on! Finally someone with a clue.

FNG

 

[dlredline]

Try Stubbs in AUS (9th and Red River I think.) Also try Iron Cactus on 6th. 100+ different kinds of tequila


Get some mashed yams with vanilla ice cream on top at Stubbs after the BBQ.... GOOD STUFF

My vote: Joel's BBQ in Flatonia, Texas. On I-10 15 miles east of San Antonio on the drive in. Mesquite and cherry wood smoked brisket, juicy link sausage, all cooked outside on a huge smoker, you can see the smoke 10 miles out on the horizon. And try their sandwiches on Texas toast. Oh, man!

Close second (tie): County Line BBQ Beef Ribs (1-800-Air-Ribs). One's a meal. Also, I agree with Stubbs in Austin. Best city in the country.

I'm hungry now . . .

Red

 

[skirt]

By the way, were is the white paper we were suppose to get? Where is the new changes? All I see is the same old thing. "treat us like mushrooms, keep us in the dark and just feed us SH__.

Faith is good, blind faith is not. But I and the others will keep hoping the management does the right thing.

FNG

FNG,

Did you take the time to attend the pocket session David and Dave held yesterday? You know, the one the leadership has the last Friday of every month, so that nobody feels left in the dark? If you had attended you would know that they are setting up pocket sessions for the contract very shortly. They are also working on the "white paper." If you had attended, they would have answered any of your questions, as they stayed an extra hour and a half to discuss the contract with anyone who asked. I guess you didn't attend. Hmmm.... sounds like self imposed mushrooming to me.

While they didn't say this, I did have the following takeaway from the pocket session.... there are only 24 hours in their day, just like ours. They have a LGA opening coming up, Nassau opening, other cities they are looking at, final negotiations for terminal 5, ongoing 190 meetings, hurricane cleanup to take care of, etc., etc., etc. All of these things need their attention too. The contract "evergreen" status takes care of the immediate issues, and everyone is being retroactively paid the increases in training pay, per diem, etc. So what is the rush? I would rather they spend the time to get it right this time, than rush needlessly just to keep you from worrying about your mushrooms.

Skirt

 

[75M]

It's rare, if ever, that anybody improves their position by quitting. JetBlue is obviously a good place to be. There aren't many pilots who wouldn't trade places with 2Dogs or anybody else on their list. Now having said that, there are areas of concern that need to be addressed as JB moves from startup airline to major airline. These areas are not unique to JB, they accor naturally in all organizations as the workforce matures.

Unfortunately, if the employees quit (as some suggest they should) as opposed to trying to improve the pay, work rules, etc, then those areas would never get addressed. You can nit-pick over inflation numbers all you like, but if there are no CLI increases and inflation continues to exist, then you fall behind, it's just a matter of how much and how fast.

JB has really started on the right track and did a great job (from my outside perspective) of hiring the right people and getting them to buy in to their philosophy. But it appears (from the comments on this board) that some of the JB pilots are working for their first airline and are unfamiliar with airline management and airline history. The sad fact is, that history has shown that if you sit back and wait for management to do the right thing, they won't. This doesn't mean that you should seek to have a bitter labor management relationship. Instead a collaborative relationship which provides for a win-win situation would be best. In order to develop that relationship, over time, two things are necessary:

1) You can't send your apps out and leave.
2) You can't sit back and wait for management to do the right thing.

More specifically you have to work with management to develop a win-win scenario for both groups (negotiate) and make sure that both groups live up to their end of the bargain (sign a collective bargaining agreement).

 

[flyguppy]

FNG,

Did you take the time to attend the pocket session David and Dave held yesterday? You know, the one the leadership has the last Friday of every month, so that nobody feels left in the dark? If you had attended you would know that they are setting up pocket sessions for the contract very shortly. They are also working on the "white paper." If you had attended, they would have answered any of your questions, as they stayed an extra hour and a half to discuss the contract with anyone who asked. I guess you didn't attend. Hmmm.... sounds like self imposed mushrooming to me.

While they didn't say this, I did have the following takeaway from the pocket session.... there are only 24 hours in their day, just like ours. They have a LGA opening coming up, Nassau opening, other cities they are looking at, final negotiations for terminal 5, ongoing 190 meetings, hurricane cleanup to take care of, etc., etc., etc. All of these things need their attention too. The contract "evergreen" status takes care of the immediate issues, and everyone is being retroactively paid the increases in training pay, per diem, etc. So what is the rush? I would rather they spend the time to get it right this time, than rush needlessly just to keep you from worrying about your mushrooms.

Skirt

Gulp, gulp, gulp.

Glad to hear you think things are so rosy, ****.

 

[jetblue320]

8vATE, jetblue320, and maybe you to PsubS,

I'm really sorry you don't like to hear what some of us have to say. But this is the USA and it's my god given right to complain. If you don't like it, then don't listen. Yet, the worst part of this is that you all appear to be unwilling to listen, even when we have the facts and the facts speak volumes. For you all, it is always "Ready... Shoot... Aim". Anyone that doesn't agree with you all is 100% wrong. I know that you guys as "senior" JB pilots deserve a lot. You all made the decision to join JB in the beginning when JB was brand new, no track record, no airplanes and the other Major airlines hiring like gang busters. That took a lot of guts and we all owe you a lot for that, and a big thanks for starting us on the path. However, we FNGs also now work for JB and have the same right to work here as you do. However I'm afraid that maybe you guys are the ones who are the problem. You are too close to the issues and have been blinded to the truth, like someone who has been brainwashed by a cult. You can't see what is really happening around you or don't want to, or worse it is the position of "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care" I just wish you guys would try and pull your heads out of the sand for once. You all seem to forget that management has constantly stated that they appreciate the fact that we have been willing to speak our minds to them, the chief pilots office, to the Values committee on issues that we think are important. Management says that they learn volumes from what we all have to say. That it is our complaints and suggestions help them identify problems and issues that need fixing. And right now it seems that it is mostly us FNGs that are willing to see the world as it really is and call a spade a spade. I have no doubt that things will work out. However it is the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. If we don't let them know what we need, then we deserve to get nothing, we deserve to be stepped on.

FNG

I agree that "we" (meaning ALL) JB pilots should voice our opinions, concerns, and beefs with our leaders. And let me set one thing straight...my dislike for 2Dogs has nothing to do with robbing him of his right to speak out about his distaste for the comtract, or lack there of. My squak with him is that he has made many personal attacks on me on this very forum ranging from name calling and professional insults. THAT is why I antagonize him every chance I have.

As far as you so called junior guys being shunned by the senior ones, well, I am sorry you feel that way because from where I sit, it just ain't so. Do you remember what Dave B. said about the feedback they got from the total of Pocket Sessions, emails and the like? It was about "250 pilots". Well, I don't know (or care) of the breakdown by seniority but it doesn't really matter. If 250 out of 850 pilots had a beef about any part of the agreement, that's less than 30% of the force. In a democratic environment, the majority was at least happy enough not to say anything, regardless of the reason (don't care, unavailable, vacation, etc).

I guess my point regarding your post is, hey, if you have a beef, fine, you have every right to be pissed, disappointed, whatever. But don't take it out on me because you aren't happy because I am not the one who effected this discourt on you. And just because I am senior AND happy as I could possibly be with my job and future, doesn't mean I am stupid or blind to what goes on around me. And FWIW, 8vAte is actually pretty junior if I recall correctly, I don't know about PsubS.

And most importantly; if 2Dogs (and yourself) are wanting to air your gripes about JB, I suggest you do it with the ones who can effect change, and believe me, they aren't on Flightinfo.com.

I have no beef with you FNG, and do not wish to start one. If you ask around the campus, I think you would find that those that know me, would tell you that I would bust my hump in anyway I could to help you, or any other JB Bro out. But there are a few guys out there that sometimes can't see the forest through the trees and get downright belligerent about it. For those few, I have lost my patience and respect for and just simply wish they would go away and stop spreading their bad ju ju.

C yaaa

 

[8vATE]

In 15 years of being a professional aviator...

I have noticed that some people inherently are greedy.....
And some are inclined to complain and want more, more, more no matter what...

I believe we as a pilot group have communicated our concerns loud and clear to our leadership... And I am hopeful and patient that they will be addressed.

I also believe our leadership is NOT the typical airline leadership... and that they are going to talk to us and work with the pilot group...

FNG is hung up on cost of living increases and I understand your concern....
No one wants to look at a payscale and see a planned erosion built in...

I believe what our leadership has said... they are being conservative and don't want to stick their necks out too far.... One thing you fail to realize is the average ticket cost (our revenue) hasn't been tied to the inflation rate....
So if we don't know what our revenue is in the future how can we build in CASM (pay) increases... I know that is simplistic but its a fact....

Dave B. has said they all would rather under-promise and over-achieve than get caught in the opposite cycle...

FNG... you seem already caught in a cycle of bitching and complaining..
Go do 10 years at Mesa or Kalitta.... Go do 15 years at USAirways and see
yourself on the street.... Go do 25-30 years at USAirways or UAL and see your
defined pension plan and > $1,000,000 lump sum retirement distribution go POOF!!!!! You don't have to start telling people around here that the squeaky wheel gets the grease....... A lot of us have seen this before....

You are working for the only airline where the founder, the president, the senior VP of Flight Ops and the director of Ops will actually get up in front of a room and TALK to their pilots...

You may not like or understand what they are saying.... but these people are trying to work with you.... They in fact "have the big picture." So you're disappointed in how FAST things are happening or not happy with WHAT they are saying... then move on buddy...

How much more money do you want to be happy...??? At what cost to our margins and profitsharing??

As I said before.... .....
You don't seem to be happy here...

I suggested FDX to you last time...

How about UPS?
Snazzy brown uniforms....

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

I have to laugh! If 2puppies ain't happy, so what! As long as when he is in my cockpit we have a good time flying that's all that matters. If you really think about it, JB is kind of like the USA, we may have our problems, but you wouldn't want to live somewhere else. As I've said before you can b1tch here all you want, but have some big round ones and take you complaints to ones who matter, like David, Dave, Al, Dave, And Pete. That will show your true mettle as a concerned individual.

As to BBQ, Larry's Real Pit BBQ in Daleville, AL.

 

[Heywood Jiblome]

As far as you so called junior guys being shunned by the senior ones, well, I am sorry you feel that way because from where I sit, it just ain't so. Do you remember what Dave B. said about the feedback they got from the total of Pocket Sessions, emails and the like? It was about "250 pilots". Well, I don't know (or care) of the breakdown by seniority but it doesn't really matter. If 250 out of 850 pilots had a beef about any part of the agreement, that's less than 30% of the force. In a democratic environment, the majority was at least happy enough not to say anything, regardless of the reason (don't care, unavailable, vacation, etc).C yaaa

320,

Come on brother, you know as well as anyone that just because you don't voice your opinion, that doesn't mean you're a happy camper. For whatever reason--personality, etc, not everyone is going to speak up. Just like not everyone votes in elections, that doesn't mean they don't have an opinion. Did you see the crapper in JFK pilot lounge.....you know, the one that was sandblasted because of all the negative comments.....

If you want to think that there are only a few people who in this company who are disappointed and the rest are going to sit around a campfire singing cubiya and drinking the blue coolaid, you go right ahead. I am going to wait and see the response by MGMT before I pass judgement on Dave and Co......but based on the past pocket sessions and Al Spain's immature defense of his contract, I don't see any changes....just, "This is why we're keeping these rates"

And the arguement that MGMT doesn't know what they can expect as far as revenue is concerned from the 190 and that's why they're keeping the rates down....give me a break....do you really think they would buy 100 -190s with 100 additional options if they didn't have a d@mn good idea how much revenue they expect to reap from those jets...come on!! I bet, based on the cities they eventually go into with the -190 that the revenue will be higher than the bus.....

Like I said before, I'm going to wait until I hear from Dave x 3 and see what they have to say...but I'm not holding my breath for any good news...

 

[2dogs]

The Emperor and blue sun glasses

"LOOK!!!!! The Emperor has no clothes!"

Jetblue320 and PsubS, "Yes he does and doesn't he look royal?"


Sigh, ...eerrp!

2dogs

 

[enigma]

320,


And the arguement that MGMT doesn't know what they can expect as far as revenue is concerned from the 190 and that's why they're keeping the rates down....give me a break....do you really think they would buy 100 -190s with 100 additional options if they didn't have a d@mn good idea how much revenue they expect to reap from those jets...come on!!

I don't have a dog in this fight, and I have a few friends at B6 whom I wish well. But the quoted statement from Heywood makes a heck of a lot of sense to me. Actions speak louder than words. B6 made the E190 buy, that't an action that speaks volumes to me.

With that said, I am still considering the possibility of applying to B6. I've not done so up to now because I wanted to see how NK was going to fare. All in all, what I read about B6 management tells me that they are head and shoulders above any other airline management team, excepting Southwest, in the way they relate to and treat their employees. If Spirit keeps making the same mistakes, over and over(the latest bid cancellation scares me), I will send in my app and pray for threeDaves to hire me.

Good luck to us all, and some of you guys need to remember who the adversary is.
enigma