Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

JB v/s SWA

  • Thread starter Thread starter burg
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 49

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
As for selling A320s, it's a great idea to sell what is worth more on the used market today to generate cash and limit liabilities. JB is still buying new airplanes (although fewer) and growing at a 20% growth rate. Will be at a SWA city near you soon with a better product.

With you guys selling airplanes, don't worry about coming to us. We will come to you! JFK 2007! Then we will see who has the "better Product" - that really nobody gives a $hit about, they shop on price. They want frequency, low fares, to get there ontime & friendly service. We got all that baby!!!

AirTran - a union CD about our up coming contract talks listed AII with lots of employees per airplane. They hired a specialist. so I assumed he might have some good info.. Let me know what you come up with? I'll look up our numbers.. Of course, we are the best! :D

the SWA/FO..
 
SWA/FO said:
With you guys selling airplanes, don't worry about coming to us. We will come to you! JFK 2007! Then we will see who has the "better Product" - that really nobody gives a $hit about, they shop on price. They want frequency, low fares, to get there ontime & friendly service. We got all that baby!!!

AirTran - a union CD about our up coming contract talks listed AII with lots of employees per airplane. They hired a specialist. so I assumed he might have some good info.. Let me know what you come up with? I'll look up our numbers.. Of course, we are the best! :D

the SWA/FO..


Could you please rephrase that and tell us how you really feel?
 
JP4:

When JB has been around for 30 years, we can compare pay, benefits, and QOL.

JB has been around 6 years and we are just starting......the things you brag about weren't around even 10 years ago. Years ago, the pay and bennies at SWA were nothing to write home about. Now they are the envy of the industry for narrowbody and in some cases widebody equipment.

Time will tell the tale, but between SWA F/O and you, I don't know who likes to gloat more.

Humility is best, don't you think?

A350
 
Alcatraz said:
One factor that I think has not been given enough attention in this thread is schedule. Unless you intentionally manipulate your schedule for any of various reasons, which is easy to do, most SWA lines (even reserve) are AM or PM schedules that don't switch back and forth mid-trip or mid-month from AM to PM. jetBlue schedules, on the other hand, seem to do this very frequently, especially when you consider the amount of redeyes they do (compared to SWA's nearly zero redeyes).

Think about it... after a redeye your choices are: get minimum rest ("day sleep") and then have a short duty period in the evening, or have a 24 hour layover to work the originator a day later (and lose productivity on the layover). Either way, it results in a shift in your body clock that becomes a cumulative fatigue factor. At other airlines I've done this once or twice a month, and even that often was too much for me to do for the rest of my life (but everyone's got different priorities). It does affect commutability, though, but I live in base...

Also, SWA lines (including reserve) are generally built to work the same days of the week all month long... something I've never experienced at any airline without significant seniority. This month, as a very junior FO, I bid a PM reserve line (coulda held an AM hard line) that works Sunday through Tuesday and sometimes Wednesday. ALL MONTH! Now I can start to have a "normal" life and schedule things on certain days of the week (sailing lessons, guitar lessons, or perhaps that auto repair college course?).

And, yes, 15 reserve days max a month is a nice bonus.

Fly safe ya'll,


-Alkie
Alkie, I am envious!(in a good way!:D )
When we approach our management regarding improvements in reserve, the standard comment is either "We're looking at that" or "It's just not possible, at this time".
I've been hearing that for literally years, even when we were very profitable.
Ya know, I'm starting to think that they just don't care. :rolleyes: <heavy irony, if you didn't get it>
When it comes to crew services, it appears high employee valuation is mostly lip service.
 
Last edited:
SWA barely left the state of Texas in 6 years! We didn't serve the Northwest until we bought Morris in the early 90's. We've only been on the east cost for about 10 years.

Personally, I hope you guys do pester us a bit so we don't get fat and lazy. JBLU has something going for it that a lot of people overlook. Your CEO has a passion for airplanes, just like Herb. The AMR's, UAL's, DAL's are all run by non-airline people who will ride the wave, cash out and be looking for a job outside the field.

Gup

Gup
 
Switcing PM to AM Flying

Alcatraz said:
Great thread
One factor that I think has not been given enough attention in this thread is schedule. Unless you intentionally manipulate your schedule for any of various reasons, which is easy to do, most SWA lines (even reserve) are AM or PM schedules that don't switch back and forth mid-trip or mid-month from AM to PM. jetBlue schedules, on the other hand, seem to do this very frequently, especially when you consider the amount of redeyes they do (compared to SWA's nearly zero redeyes).

-Alkie

I like this point. I guess however that "ones trash is another's treasure".

I bid late starts that transition into early finishes. I can commute in around noon on the first day and be home bye noon on the last day of a 4 day trip while still banking 22-25 hours. This way I don't commute on any days off and spend more time with the family.
 
Sailpilot said:
I bid late starts that transition into early finishes. I can commute in around noon on the first day and be home bye noon on the last day of a 4 day trip while still banking 22-25 hours. This way I don't commute on any days off and spend more time with the family.

Valid point. Commutability is somewhat of an issue with SWA schedules. Almost all are commutable either front or back, but few on both ends. Having more days off helps, and having several bases in more affordable cities than JFK helps, too. Not that OAK, BWI, or to some people PHX, MCO, or MDW are "affordable," but the cost of living within a long drive of these cities is more "possible" than JFK...

I'm pretty sure both airlines (SWA for sure) have "jetway trades," which are great if you commute on-line to a city that many commute on. Whoever invented this is "The Man." (or "The Woman.")

SWA pilots also have the ability to do partial pairing give aways (via computer). As an example, when I was based in MCO for a month I was able to give away the first day and a half of a four day, and started my trip when it passed through MDW late enough to drive to work that day. The trip finished early enough (since it was originally an "AM" trip) for me to commute home from MCO. Last month I also gave away the first few legs of a MDW AM trip, allowing me to drive to Chicago at a more manageable hour than 2:30 in the morning. Having several legs a day with this "regional" style of flying that some people accuse us of having makes this much easier. The only drawback is we don't really have "drops," we just have "give aways," so some other pilot has to be willing to pick up your partial trip. "Drops" can be an expensive feature of some pilot contracts, though...

Trading with open time is another story, but it's a trade, rarely a drop.

Take care ya'll...
 
Alcatraz said:
Valid point. Commutability is somewhat of an issue with SWA schedules. Almost all are commutable either front or back, but few on both ends. Having more days off helps, and having several bases in more affordable cities than JFK helps, too. Not that OAK, BWI, or to some people PHX, MCO, or MDW are "affordable," but the cost of living within a long drive of these cities is more "possible" than JFK...

I'm pretty sure both airlines (SWA for sure) have "jetway trades," which are great if you commute on-line to a city that many commute on. Whoever invented this is "The Man." (or "The Woman.")

SWA pilots also have the ability to do partial pairing give aways (via computer). As an example, when I was based in MCO for a month I was able to give away the first day and a half of a four day, and started my trip when it passed through MDW late enough to drive to work that day. The trip finished early enough (since it was originally an "AM" trip) for me to commute home from MCO. Last month I also gave away the first few legs of a MDW AM trip, allowing me to drive to Chicago at a more manageable hour than 2:30 in the morning. Having several legs a day with this "regional" style of flying that some people accuse us of having makes this much easier. The only drawback is we don't really have "drops," we just have "give aways," so some other pilot has to be willing to pick up your partial trip. "Drops" can be an expensive feature of some pilot contracts, though...

Trading with open time is another story, but it's a trade, rarely a drop.

Take care ya'll...

Commutability on both ends has been pretty easy for me with good productivity. No crash pad in nyc anymore.

Can drop if reserves are sufficient.
 
My magic 8 Ball said try again later :D
 
GuppyWN said:
SWA barely left the state of Texas in 6 years! We didn't serve the Northwest until we bought Morris in the early 90's. We've only been on the east cost for about 10 years.

Personally, I hope you guys do pester us a bit so we don't get fat and lazy. JBLU has something going for it that a lot of people overlook. Your CEO has a passion for airplanes, just like Herb. The AMR's, UAL's, DAL's are all run by non-airline people who will ride the wave, cash out and be looking for a job outside the field.

Gup

Gup

Gup, guys like you are what make SWA such a great place! I appreciate the kind post...and I hope you guys don't get fat and lazy either. The industry needs SWA leading the way.

CD
 
canyonblue said:
but it takes a lot more of them to be as productive as a Southwest pilot.

Are you kidding?

I understand the unique SWA culture but, really, do you think a pilot from UAL, DAL, AMR or JB could not do the job as well?

I gotta believe SWA's success is the whole package and the pilots have a smaller impact than the FAs who interact with the people the most.
 
I understand the unique SWA culture but, really, do you think a pilot from UAL, DAL, AMR or JB could not do the job as well?

No.. I think not. A former UAL, former DAL, former AMR or former JB guy might have what it takes! Which reminds me of the question I was asked at an Air, Inc. convention. "Do you have what it takes to be a United Pilot?" I said "yeah, you guys fly airplanes, right?" They didn't like me or my answer.

pilots have a smaller impact than the FAs who interact with the people the most.

Or by the "better product" TV they are watching. Paying pilots to fly and not sit at home helps the bottom line too....:D

the SWA/FO
 
Last edited:
SWA/FO said:
AirTran - a union CD about our up coming contract talks listed AII with lots of employees per airplane. They hired a specialist. so I assumed he might have some good info.. Let me know what you come up with? I'll look up our numbers.. Of course, we are the best! :D

SWA/FO, I know you saw my post on the other thread about the employees per airplane and CASM figures between LUV and AAI at the end of Q1 06.

Here more.

The SWAPA DVD was way off with regards to pilots per airplane at AAI. I know SWAPA hired a well-respected specialist. However, it is obvious the specialist got some of his numbers wrong. At the end of Q1, AAI's pilot to airplane ratio was 11.8 (check the DVD again...he wasn't even close). LUV's pilot to airplane ratio was approx 10.9 at the end of Q1. Makes me wonder what else the specialist got wrong. (I realize these aren't exact numbers but they are pretty close).

You're right, LUV is the best. However, we can't go into negotiations underestimating our competitors.
 
SWA/FO said:
union CD about our up coming contract talks listed AII with lots of employees per airplane. They hired a specialist. so I assumed he might have some good info...

It begs the question of why SWAPA has to hire a specialist to divide AA's number of airplanes by the number of pilots.

Unbelievable how much money SWAPA wastes.
 
DH2WN said:
It begs the question of why SWAPA has to hire a specialist to divide AA's number of airplanes by the number of pilots.

Unbelievable how much money SWAPA wastes.

Amazing we're letting you continue to steal oxygen....
 
SWA/FO said:
No.. I think not. A former UAL, former DAL, former AMR or former JB guy might have what it takes! Which reminds me of the question I was asked at an Air, Inc. convention. "Do you have what it takes to be a United Pilot?" I said "yeah, you guys fly airplanes, right?" They didn't like me or my answer.the SWA/FO

I guess your burgeoning airline interview prep business isn't doing that well...

;)
 
The SWAPA DVD was way off with regards to pilots per airplane at AAI. I know SWAPA hired a well-respected specialist. However, it is obvious the specialist got some of his numbers wrong. At the end of Q1, AAI's pilot to airplane ratio was 11.8 (check the DVD again...he wasn't even close). LUV's pilot to airplane ratio was approx 10.9 at the end of Q1. Makes me wonder what else the specialist got wrong. (I realize these aren't exact numbers but they are pretty close

I need to watch that DVD again... sounds like this guy was way off.. Anyway, that was my source. I kept asking my buddy at AirTran and he said he had no idea.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top