JB or Airtran?

[mnboyev]

Well.... I'm a little partial to AirTran. I'll throw in a couple random thoughts.

With that said. AirTran is a little more like and 'old' traditional airline. Employee groups stick together and fight across lines. But we all chip in when it is needed. ?? So I cant say that across the board we are just like the ol legacies. But SWA and Jet Blue we are not. No Kool aid and polo shirts. No friggin beach parties to build teamwork and loyalty. Some days I wish we had a little more luv...

We dont run around doing High Fives in the hallways. Everyone is realistic about our position in the industry. AirTran folks as a whole work hard and eagerly seek to solidify our status and turf. A very proud workforce who is a bit underpaid considering what is expected. My opinion only ... Maybe subjective at best.

But the fellas running the place, in the time Ive been here, have done a pretty darn good job. Safe reliable aircraft, Low CASM, and aggressive expansion into legacy territory. Not an easy task with an industry that is upside down.

The Pilots have alot of pull when things get dicey. We are a pilots airline and the mechanics are a close second. I believe this a traditional trait that has been handed to our pilot group from the Ol Gray haired fellas who started the place.. Both Airways and VJ. So.. Airtran has had a good 'base' of experience and hardship which creates a rock solid solidarity amongst most AirTran pilots.

I can pick on my brother ... but if you pick on him I'll kick you arse..!!

Long story short.. AirTran is a great place to work. Pretty good pay. Ok benefits. Ok schedules. Good expansion and opportunity. Safe equipment. Hardworking ethic (pilot group). Bright future for AirTran. We are not going away... AirTran will be around for many years to come.

Best of Luck to you. You would enjoy flying with us at AirTran. Fun pilot group with good experience. We operate in a very safe and careful manner and try to provide the customer with a reliable and friendly product.

 

[XGmaninGA]

Well said.

 

[Dennis Miller]

The Pilots have alot of pull when things get dicey. We are a pilots airline and the mechanics are a close second. I believe this a traditional trait that has been handed to our pilot group from the Ol Gray haired fellas who started the place..

I heard from a friend of mine that this is one of the only downsides to Southwest. He said, "The best thing about Southwest is everyone is treated the same, the worst thing about Southwest is everyone is treated the same". The Captains are not very respected by other work groups, but they should be. The entire operation revolves around the Captain, like it or not. Apparently some other work groups don’t. Many team meetings with a peeved employee who had a run in with a Captain, only to see the Captain made out to be in the wrong.

 

[jbDave]

Just throwing my .02 in here.


1. I can't elaborate any more eloquently than those who have already posted on this subject regarding the commute, but understand that it is a HUGE factor. I have commuted to work now for eleven years, most of which has been "off-line" commuting. Just going from that to commuting "on-line" is night and day. Especially if you can live in base (or close to it) and drive in - what a difference. I am now enjoying that priveledge for the first time in quite a LONG time. Anyway, the commute can easily add 25%-30% to your away from home schedule depending on how it plays out for you.

2. I turned down a job offer from AirTran in 2001. Frankly, I wasn't terribly impressed during the interview. In their defense, that was then - this is now. I truly believe that they have come miles along since then. Maybe it was my short sightedness at the time, but I have been at peace with my decision.

3. JetBlue has been a dream come true for me. Very content, extremely happy. I do not have my eye on anything else.

4. The E190 thing as it relates to pay (according to mgmt) should be a wash when viewed over a 3 year period from date of hire. Reasoning for this is based on upgrade within 1 year on the E190 versus 3 years in the A320. This is all variable with aircraft deliveries and however current JB pilots bid in the future. After studying the demographics involved I think that their estimations are not too far off target. Possibly even favoring the E190 for higher total pay depending if the A320 upgrades become protracted over time. Only time will tell, but I don't think you can go wrong either way.


Bottom line. I think you have a tough decision but in the end you will probably be happy either way. It all comes down to a matter of personal choice. The biggest one for me was that JetBlue was a better fit for me and I couldn't be happier. Only you will know what is a better fit for you.

Congrats on whichever you choose.

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

thanks jbdave...well said, and I agree about the commuting thing.

 

[nimtz]

4. The E190 thing as it relates to pay (according to mgmt) should be a wash when viewed over a 3 year period from date of hire. Reasoning for this is based on upgrade within 1 year on the E190 versus 3 years in the A320. This is all variable with aircraft deliveries and however current JB pilots bid in the future. After studying the demographics involved I think that their estimations are not too far off target. Possibly even favoring the E190 for higher total pay depending if the A320 upgrades become protracted over time. Only time will tell, but I don't think you can go wrong either way.

Well guess that makes those DC-9, oops I mean E190 pay rates acceptable then...

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Can anybody clue me in on a few JetBlue questions:

1. Min days off on reserve.
2. Ability to drop/pick-up trips (Minimum hours you can drop to)
3. Vacation


Thanks

 

[banger]

Reserve min days off is 12. You can ask to block those in groups of 4 or 3 if you commute. Min hours for a line holder is 70. We have a very cool program called FLICA on the web that makes it super easy to pick up/drop/PTO and other things. That said the ability (approval) to change anything usually depends on things like number of reserves required and other things. And the ability to drop trips is very dependent on the number of reserve pilots required for a certain day (more on weekends/holidays, less on weekdays) Right now (seems like forever) we are short pilots so people are getting frustrated because they cannot drop any trips or use the PTO (paid time off 9hrs/month) that is granted to them. The company is aware of the problem and is working on solutions.
Vacations are bid by seniority and if I remember right we got a week off the first year and 2 the second year. You must build your own PTO each month to cover the pay for the week. Meaning you can bid 2 weeks off but if your PTO bank has no more hours because you took off 9 hours every month of the year then you end up with 2 weeks of unpaid. All in all it works pretty good for me.
Company is always looking to change improve things. Right now they realized that the summer will be undermanned so they have offered to "buy" back vacations of people who have them scheduled during summer months. Totally voluntary program. That way more pilots will be available and the reserve guys will get a little break. Good Luck!

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Just one more, what's the hour value of a day when using PTO?

 

[banger]

I just looked in the pay manual. Value of a reserve day and vacation is 5 PTO hours. Value of a linholder's trip dropped is the scheduled hours credit of that trip.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

I just looked in the pay manual. Value of a reserve day and vacation is 5 PTO hours. Value of a linholder's trip dropped is the scheduled hours credit of that trip.

mucho gracias

 

[xrayojilp]

Some of this stuff seems kind of frivoulous. You should consider that the training department at Airtran is run by old eastern guys and is totally @#$% up. Ego, attitude, and pride play such a hugh role in the whole thing and it is very unprofessional in many cases. You constantly hear things like your experience in training will have to do with who you know and what they think about you before you even show up. It sounds really corrupt.

I've spoken with many different captains at Airtran lately and they all say that their upgrade was the worst experience of their lives. They were all treated like absolute @#$% during the entire process. Some of these guys had low PIC experience in their past and some were ridiculously overqualified. Many people now say this is because of the quality of people going through, but I don't buy it. Its the attitude of the training department.

Getting a job with a company may not be your best move under this sort of environment. But I only know about Airtran and not Jetblue. There is also to consider that if you are older 40+ you can get the 737 at Airtran, which is not run by said Eastern guys and is fairly normal as training programs go.

 

[Ty Webb]

Gotta love info from people who post stuff like this but don't even know the code for the bag room door.

 

[-9Capt]

Gotta love info from people who post stuff like this but don't even know the code for the bag room door.

Or even where it is for that matter.

 

[xrayojilp]

Starts with 4, next to the wings financial atm.

Why are you guys so defensive?, I assume you were talking to me. Is what I said not true?

All I am saying is that there are big problems with every company. Don't drink the Kool Aid.

 

[FL717]

LOL!! -9Capt drinking the Kool-aid!! LOL!

Don't drink the Kool Aid.

You obviously don't KNOW -9Capt OR Ty Webb personally at work....... because I'm not even sure they drink the water around here!! LOL!!

All I am saying is that there are big problems with every company.

No.... this is a what you posted...... so THIS is what you're saying:

*You should consider that the training department at Airtran is run by old eastern guys and is totally @#$% up.
*Ego, attitude, and pride play such a hugh role in the whole thing and it is very unprofessional in many cases.
*It sounds really corrupt.
*They were all treated like absolute @#$% during the entire process.
*Its the attitude of the training department.
*But I only know about Airtran and not Jetblue.
*I've spoken with many different captains at Airtran lately and they all say that their upgrade was the worst experience of their lives.

I'm not drinking any "kool aid" (that expression is sooo LAME let me tell you), and if you search my posts you'll find that I call it as I see it...... but the difference here is that by your OWN admission..... YOU are calling it as you've HEARD from others...... not as you "SEE" it.

Finally... if you knew -9Capt or Ty Webb personally....... you would realize why we're laughing how off the mark your "kool aid" comment directed towards them was.

Thats what I'M saying.

 

[xrayojilp]

Are you a lawyer in your spare time or something?

IS WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE AIRTRAN TRAINING DEPARTMENT NOT TRUE? My post was not meant as flame bait, just to give a little input.

 

[jetdawg]

your post is dead on about the old trng. dpt. not that you were treated like

s%^&$t you were just treated like you better know this stuff or else. I upgraded on the 9 and it was hell, but ever transition after 717 then the 737 have been excellent. the 737 program is run a little smoother in my view. I have talked to upgrades on the 737 and they do great. the 717 program they pass with a extra session or so but that is somewhat normal in my opion. there is allot to cover in the few sims you get.

 

[-9Capt]

Ok, I'll admit it, the -9 upgrade program was very intense. You were made to feel like you were pledging a fraternity. I haven't been hearing many complaints about the training dept. lately (last couple of years).