I've had it!

[Fracster]

I cannot in good conscience ever give someone positive info on NJA. This is not a career job...heck, its not even a stepping stone!

There is no was a regional could be worse than 14 days every day. It doesn't matter if you get 10, 12 or 14 hours of its still 14 hours.

Every week gets worse than the last. I take back every fair comment I ever made. If you're corporate, stay there. If you're at a regional, stay there. If your're unemployed, stay there.

Just my opinion

 

[Vspeeds]

Please Explain!

Could you please explain a little in detail as in regards to your various comparisons you made?

Thanx

 

[earl]

There is no was a regional could be worse than 14 days every day.

What the crap are you talking about?? "There is no was" ? For GOD's sake man, pull it together. Take a deep breath.

Earl

 

[Twotter76]

Umm I hate to point this out but at my regional (widely regarded as one of the best to work for BTW) I can work a 16 hour day and I still have to commute home. Tell me again why you have it so bad? I am pretty sure that you still make more than me as a second year CRJ FO...

 

[old*art]

And what is this crowd going to be saying when the game gets "in the red zone" ?

 

[Fracster]

I had a few drinks before I posted so lets just say that wont happen again.

What I meant to say is a regional job is as good or better than NJA.

As a second year regional fo you will make more than at NJA.

91K has done little for knowing when you will be on or off. You will show at 5, 6 or 7am and sit at the fbo for a full 14 hours before released to the hotel. If you have trips during the day then you will fly your trips and still sit at the FBO until 14 hours. Why, because scheduling can.

NJA scheduling reports to no one and cannot be reprimanded.

The only positive is you dont commute but on the other hand you might not have another crew member or an airplane yet scheduling will hold you on so that you arrive home at 11:59 on your last day. Its a joke folks.

 

[Twotter76]

After rereading my reply I can see where it comes across a bit strong - but then you aren't the only one drinking and posting. My point was simply that there is always somewhere worse off. At my regional our scheduling department is not held accountable for its actions so we suffer. Trips that are not commutable on both ends, hiding open time, repeated denials of any trip trades, these are all common practice. Throw in a displacement or two and you have a very grumpy workforce. At least you all have a new contract to look forward to. We have, um, well i'm not actually sure what we have to look forward to. These are some of the many reasons that NJ is starting to look really good to me. At least i'd get to see my beloved west coast again.

 

[flyer172r]

Would it be possible to change the scheduling practices as part of the new contract?

 

[Flechas]

Remember guys, DON'T DRINK AND POST, the results could be fatal!

 

[Fracster]

Twotter,

Your post was fine brutha, no probs there! If you come here you will get to see your West Coast. I doubt any of the gateway will shrink. You will continue to deal with scheduling problems, just different ones.

flyer172r,

I doubt it. After speaking with many union officials this isnt something they are dealing with for the new contract. Let me clarify, they are working on new schedules but as for the scheduling practices there isnt a whole lot that can be done right now I believe. Until the scheduling department is held accountable days will continue to remain long and hard.
They never figured out how to schedule before 91K so we cant expect much to change. Funny thing is NJA is trying to save money and become efficient, etc, etc but yet the most costly and inefficient department is scheduling.

 

[El Chupacabra]

We are shooting for 55 hours of duty any one tour max. After you reach that they will have to send you home.

 

[ProFracPilot]

We are shooting for 55 hours of duty any one tour max. After you reach that they will have to send you home.

Wow. Good luck on that one! If we had this limitation at FltOps, I'd be sent home after day 4!

 

[Lrjet55]

ProFracPilot,


Can you explain how Flops is scheduling you with 135 Regs? I was told that after 10 hours of rest you can still be in the hotel and contactable but the time spent in the hotel is not counted towards duty. Can you elaborate?

 

[xjcaptain]

So let me get this straight. You are suprised that at a fractional (pseudo charter) you spend long periods of time waiting at FBO's for customers, or are basically on call....Who woulda thunk it? Did you actually think you would fly with no downtime? Airlines are no different. Fly some, sit some. Long duty days 14hrs plus (up to 16 at times) are the norm not the exception. Now I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, but if you didn't see this coming when you entered the aviation field you must have had blinders on.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Be happy to get things straight for you...

You finish a trip at 12 hours on duty. There are no more trips but you have to stay at the FBO 2 more hours until you duty out... for no reason other than they can. If there were another trip you can't possible do it in the time you have left before duty time runs out.

You have no airplane, no flying partner. You hang around at the FBO for 14 hours. Just because they can.

You are assigned an airplane that will not be out of maintenance for 2 more days. You must hang out at the FBO 14 hours. Just because they can.

The reason for this change is harassment while we are in negotiations.

It may not piss YOU off but it does me...

 

[ProFracPilot]

Can you explain how Flops is scheduling you with 135 Regs? I was told that after 10 hours of rest you can still be in the hotel and contactable but the time spent in the hotel is not counted towards duty. Can you elaborate?

Well, I don't know if this is an explanation. But here's the policy:

CREW DUTY/REST POLICY ​

[font=Arial,Arial]Dispatch may attempt to contact crewmembers once they have received minimum required rest (defined as at least 10 hours uninterrupted rest or extended rest as defined by SOP) after their last assigned duty period, but before their expected duty-on time.

When doing so, the following procedure will apply:

Dispatch will only initiate contact after the crewmembers have received at least the minimum required rest. Crewmembers will ensure they are available for contact after receiving the minimum required rest. After required rest, the crewmember will also ensure the hotel phone and the Blackberry is turned on and not silenced. The crewmember is expected to answer either if called. If called from 0001 to 0600 local by dispatch, for an earlier than originally assigned trip, the crewmember’s duty begins at time of contact. For calls after 0600 local, duty will begin at the scheduled show time. [/font]

 

[El Chupacabra]

I do not think that is going to fly very long.

It does not really matter when duty starts... it matters when Rest Ends. And according to the FEDS ... rest Ends as soon as you have to answer the phone/pager.

 

[AirBear8]

How do they know if you're at the FBO? In this situation where you know they can't use you to fly and if you live close to the airport why not just go home or back to the hotel?

FWIW reserve at Mesa is similar. You can't get a crew tracker to release you in time for the last flight home even if you don't have enough duty day to do anything because they're scared to make a decision. But of course when they need a favor from you they get angry when you won't help them out.

AirBear

Be happy to get things straight for you...

You finish a trip at 12 hours on duty. There are no more trips but you have to stay at the FBO 2 more hours until you duty out... for no reason other than they can. If there were another trip you can't possible do it in the time you have left before duty time runs out.

You have no airplane, no flying partner. You hang around at the FBO for 14 hours. Just because they can.

You are assigned an airplane that will not be out of maintenance for 2 more days. You must hang out at the FBO 14 hours. Just because they can.

The reason for this change is harassment while we are in negotiations.

It may not piss YOU off but it does me...

 

[njwingman]

How do they know if you're at the FBO? In this situation where you know they can't use you to fly and if you live close to the airport why not just go home or back to the hotel?

AirBear

You'll get it figured out as soon as you get here. There'll be a couple dozen NJA pilots in each of the main FBOs to help. Be sure and let us know when you are NJA bound.

 

[Lrjet55]

AirBear8,

The company knows where you are at all times. After every leg we call in to give the times of the last flight and check on changes for the next leg.

You cant go home because you will rarely, if ever, have an overnight at your gateway. If you do then go home if you dont live to far away. Only you know if its worth going home on a 10 hour turn.

You cant go to the hotel until the company releases you to go. Go early if you want but if they catch you or if something happens like a trip pops and your not ready within an hour you'll probaly get in trouble or canned.

 

[RoughAir]

El Chupacabra

That would really piss me off too. Waiting around 14 hours for nothing.

 

[AirBear8]

Thanks, I thought you guys were talking about having to sit around your Gateway's FBO all day. I live about 15 minutes from the FBO in CLT. At Mesa our min overnight is only 9 hours from block in to block out. If I did my math right at NetJets it's 11.5 hours. (30 minute post flight, 1 hour prior showtime). When I get CLT RON's I always go home since I can usually get their faster than the hotel.

AirBear8,

The company knows where you are at all times. After every leg we call in to give the times of the last flight and check on changes for the next leg.

You cant go home because you will rarely, if ever, have an overnight at your gateway. If you do then go home if you dont live to far away. Only you know if its worth going home on a 10 hour turn.

You cant go to the hotel until the company releases you to go. Go early if you want but if they catch you or if something happens like a trip pops and your not ready within an hour you'll probaly get in trouble or canned.

 

[Galaxy]

Its all a game... They started sending crews out to sit stby at the fbo at 6am when trips were not till the afternoon. It pissed us all off having to leave the hotel before breakfast was served and no catering was ordered for stby at FBO. If they called for a recovery I told them we are heading to a resturant before we fly. I took this wonderful time that I could have been sleeping or watching the IN-laws on Jerry Springer. I had them move the plane to a nice warm hangar and change clothes and start a nice long s l o w preflight. When its an hour before showtime I call them and break the bad news and start faxing the small book of squaks. Now I can finally call logistics and get my old hotel room back. If they say stay there I wait for the mx guy to show and assist him taking panels and cowlings off so I can get a better look for more writeups...When they always tell you call back in 20 for hotels. I just make my own arrangements go check in with my handy corp amex then call in and let them know where I am at. I dont put up with the over 14 hrs either.. If they schedule me for 14 and the pax get late I chuck in the oh I am sooo fatigued card.. I just know I will be sooo tired during the landing phase...They hate it and the owner does too. Sorry about the inconvienence but it is in the best interest of safety and I tell them the time I was released yesterday and the time I got called by mismatch this morning. Also guys should wear a button that tells the owners and crews what day you are on so we all can figure out who the OT losers are.. I just love the guy that did 50 something days straight (Plow)not naming names. I dont care who you are but that many days of 14/10 you are gonna make a mistake--I just hope its a little one..

 

[slowto250]

Its all a game... They started sending crews out to sit stby at the fbo at 6am when trips were not till the afternoon. It pissed us all off having to leave the hotel before breakfast was served and no catering was ordered for stby at FBO. If they called for a recovery I told them we are heading to a resturant before we fly. I took this wonderful time that I could have been sleeping or watching the IN-laws on Jerry Springer. I had them move the plane to a nice warm hangar and change clothes and start a nice long s l o w preflight. When its an hour before showtime I call them and break the bad news and start faxing the small book of squaks. Now I can finally call logistics and get my old hotel room back. If they say stay there I wait for the mx guy to show and assist him taking panels and cowlings off so I can get a better look for more writeups...When they always tell you call back in 20 for hotels. I just make my own arrangements go check in with my handy corp amex then call in and let them know where I am at. I dont put up with the over 14 hrs either.. If they schedule me for 14 and the pax get late I chuck in the oh I am sooo fatigued card.. I just know I will be sooo tired during the landing phase...They hate it and the owner does too. Sorry about the inconvienence but it is in the best interest of safety and I tell them the time I was released yesterday and the time I got called by mismatch this morning. Also guys should wear a button that tells the owners and crews what day you are on so we all can figure out who the OT losers are.. I just love the guy that did 50 something days straight (Plow)not naming names. I dont care who you are but that many days of 14/10 you are gonna make a mistake--I just hope its a little one..

Galaxy,

If I ever decide to fly the fracs....I'd be happy to raise your gear.
All you Kool-aid drinkers should pay attention. And your union dues : )

 

[rvsm410]

Daj Vu.....memory check

Let me get this right...you grow up looking through the fences at airports wait and wanting to be a pilot, then you finally go through all that training to get your ratings, PPL, Inst, Com, Multi, CFI, CFII and then slave for weeks, months and years as a CFI to build time...500 hours, 1000 hours, 1500 hours as you beg for every charter that comes around, dream of flying all those turbo-props that stop in the FBO...finally you get some quality time in them, maybe get typed and build more time just waiting to get to the magical point in space where you can start applying for a "real flying" job...and be competitve.

Then the resumes start flying you continue to teach, fly charters, and beg for turbine time...1800 hours, and then your interviews start dribbling in....now your begging for that regional job...someone, anyone, the wait continues...you keep interviewing....and walla...someone finally offers you a job!...2000 hours!

Its been years since the days of looking through the fence and watching in amazement as those airplanes took flight...you have forgotten the pain indured getting to where you are now...

And now your siting in the FBO's of the country, with that shiney jet out there on the Tarmack that is all yours to fly.....and your complaining about your scheduling department.....boy seems you need a memory check and how you got to where you are...

Remember there are thousands of people that are where you "where" waiting for their turn to sit on on that FBO couch....Good luck, but as you can see by the other posters, the grass is not that green on the other side of the fence, you have alot more flexibility in your flying than most especially in the 121 world.....Just be Happy!

 

[homerjdispatch]

Kettle calling the pot black...

RVSM410,

Are you really telling someone to quit whining? You are one of the biggest whiners on this website. Get over it!!!!

 

[Lrjet55]

And now your siting in the FBO's of the country, with that shiney jet out there on the Tarmack that is all yours to fly.....and your complaining about your scheduling department.....boy seems you need a memory check and how you got to where you are...

I could totaly see this guy being first in line for PFT just because he will be happy flying a jet! Moron!

Its people like this who kill the industry. They dont understand people have bills to pay, mortgages, kids tuition, medical expenses.

Ignorance sure is bliss when you a fooking moron!

 

[El Chupacabra]

He'd have to learn to fly first....

another know nothing who has NEVER worked as a pilot in his life ... mouthing off about the working conditions of those who do work as pilots.

Just Hillarious.

 

[Galaxy]

See now you got me all wrong!!!! I did not grow up hangin on the fence at the airport.. The fence in our neighborhood was to keep us out of the good neighborhoods and was a great obstacle for the police when the Krusty vs. Johnny D. Law 5K was going on.

I wanted to be a pimp. Yea thats right! get all the booty and most of the money. For exercise you can smack around the non-productive girls. But life did not work out that way.

My folks could not afford to send me to college so I had to join the military to get money as Mr. Lee from the liquor store started packing heat and would fire first in a hold-up. Then after years and years of service living in dirt holes protecting the country I escaped and continued a civilian career only to find out I hated the job and wanted to shoot almost everyone I met. Wish I had met you then.. I had to start flying from scratch and did it for fun with that tax free money I was taking from my kids selling crack in the old neighborhood. You must be a lucky guy to not have to complain about the wages and treatment you are getting. Must be nice to graduate college and have no bills. Also must be nice not having a family due to you can't afford one or Mom and Dad subsidise that too so they can be proud and say their little Johnny works as an airline pilot for american. They of course forgot to say the Eagle in front of it. They also fail to mention they have been buying you cars since you were 16yrs old and also make your rent for you.
Ok, now for the serious part. Most of the folks in this business are in it because they love to fly.. I have never met anyone in it and happy about Comair as a career. Or a corp jet FO for the same pay as a 711 mgr. You devalue your school degree and your FAA ratings just to get that coveted position. Just wait and all the planes will come in due time.. But by taking that CRJ FO or C550 FO job for under 20K a year you tell the rest of the world you think nothing at all of your degree or ratings. You are empowering the company and feeding the system. Why is it a guy can go to school for say computer engineer and make a 50K yr salary the first yr out of school for only a fraction of the school debt? And most pilots wander the roads with 130K+ in debt and hit thier knees thanking GOD for the 15K CFI job. If we are to be treated as professionals then we must act as them thar pro's. This means you should come wash my car so you can hear me say " Sure I'll walk your resume in".
Think of what you are saying.........the reality bus is coming down the street prepare to get on it......You can't feed your family on all those free peanuts you can steal from the plane.. Oh and all that crap about doing the job for free.....say that to my face and I will give you a crash axe tattoo!!! Those days are gone..just like the days of the possibility if the 200K UAL career. Now its the 60K commuter of frax job.. If this ASAP thing don't work-I am going back to the high speed, low altitude generic black market pharmacutical transport pilot.. I hear IT pays well.....