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I've been making deposits in the bank of experience: education & training- CA Sully

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Sully is full of it. Yeah, I said it. It follows that civi pilots have less experience?!?

You military knuckleheads need to get off your high horse. If the service is so damm great, then why'd you leave?
 
Interesting bit of trivia. About 20 years ago DAL went through a spat of so many inflight problems in a short period of time that they were investigated by the FAA.
They crashed an L 1011 by landing in a thunderstorm, a crew shutdown the wrong engine on a L 1011 departing lax and they almost went in the drink, multiple incidents of landing at the wrong airport, etc.
The FAA finding was essentially "too many former fighter pilots at DAL' Their experience was not transfering well into the cockpit of a civilian airliner and they were not working well as a crew. So DAL had to revamp their CRM training as a result of the FAA's findings.
 
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Sully is full of it. Yeah, I said it. It follows that civi pilots have less experience?!?

You military knuckleheads need to get off your high horse. If the service is so damm great, then why'd you leave?

They're not leaving anymore. They used to leave because the airlines paid more. This is not the case. The only military pilots that are leaving are the ones that have enough years of service to collect a pension.
 
Most of the pilots who have been in this business long enough to have flown with a lot of different crewmembers come to realize that a good pilot is a good pilot. It has little to do with his background, and everything to do with his attitude. Every once in awhile you come across a military pilot that thinks "military pilots are better" or a civilian pilot that thinks "civilian pilots are better". Invariably those individuals are actually weaker than most of their counterparts. Their lack of perspective seems to lend itself to poor multi crew cockpit skills.

Ding! We have a winner.

I have flown with pilots right out of UND who had better skills than senior captains that I fly with now at a "major", civilian or military. What Dan says above is so true. If you are looking intensely at someones background like that it is probably due to insecurity, and that is probably due to weak flying skills. Every airline and every different country's military has people who were born to do it, and people who need extra time to get up to speed. Any of the above can shine on any given day, and any of the above can be that extra link in the chain.
 
Once again.... as usual... the point on FI is missed....

If we can get the publics attention that there is an experience problem, perhaps we can change it.....

Anybody interested in doing that with compensation packages?
 
Oh, so there is the implication that fewer military pilots means unsafe airlines. Good grief. Military pilots are good but they're no better than properly trained civilians.
 
Capt. Sully Worried About Airline Industry

Feb. 10, 2009 (CBS) The amazing story of US Airways Flight 1549 might have frequent fliers thinking more about something often taken for granted: the experience of the pilot. The captain of Flight 1549 told CBS News anchor Katie Couric that he's concerned the industry will soon have trouble attracting experienced pilots. The reason? Money.


"One way of looking at this might be that, for 42 years, I've been making small regular deposits in this bank of experience: education and training," said US Airways Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger. "And on January 15, the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal."

Sullenberger is uncharacteristically worried. He's worried that when it comes to the bank of experience for airline pilots, there may someday be a significant shortage.

"I don't know a single professional pilot who would recommend that their children follow in their footsteps," he said.

There was a time when airline pilot was a coveted job - glamorous, respected, with plenty of benefits.

But now: "The airline employees have been hit by an economic tsunami. Pay cuts, loss of pensions, increased hours every day, days per week, days per month," Sullenberger said. "It's a heavy burden."

Last year alone, more than 6,000 commercial pilots were either furloughed or permanently laid off.

Couric said: "What effect do you think that is having on the industry itself and on the people's it's attracting?"

"I know some of our pilots, who have been laid off, have chosen not to return," Sullenberger said. "I can speak personally, for me and my family, that my decision to remain in this profession that I love has come at a cost to me and my family."

Sully says five years ago he and the rest of his fellow pilots at US Airways gave back almost $6.8 billion in pension, wages and other concessions, to keep the airline flying.

And while annual salaries can average anywhere from $37,000 for a first officer and well into the six figures for a captain, the shrinking workforce means pilots are often spread very thin.

As Capt. James Ray of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association said: "Twenty years ago, the average airline pilot would maybe work, oh, 70 to 80 hours, about three times a month. Now, that pilot's working 70 to 80 hours every week," he said.

"It started with deregulation in 1978. The onset of low-cost carriers really started to put stress on the system," said Peter Goelz, the former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board. "Then you couple that with 9/11, the spike in fuel costs, you've really got the prescription for a very challenged industry."

The majority of pilots hired today are civilians coming out of flight school, who began their career at smaller airlines. And few have the military background Sullenberger had flying for the Air Force.

In 1992, roughly 90 percent of those hired by major carriers had flown for the military. By last year, fewer than 30 percent had.

"I think that there will always be people who want to do this," Sullenberger said. "It just may not be the same people who are doing it now."

"Are you concerned that that means if another situation like this one comes up in the future, you won't have as qualified a pilot flying the plane?" Couric asked.

"That just follows doesn't it?" Sullenberger said.

But despite the harsh economic realities, for the first time in jet aviation history, U.S. commercial carriers have gone two consecutive years without a crash fatality.

When contracted about Sullenberger's concerns, the Air Transport Association, which represents the principle U.S. carriers, had no comment.

The story of Flight 1549 has been a boost to the country. But it's also given those who work in the struggling industry a shot in the arm.

"Probably the most important words I've heard have been from my peers. That I have made them proud," Sullenberger said. "That they feel pride in themselves - a pride in their profession they hadn't felt for years. Sometimes decades. And they also tell me, especially ones at my airline who know me, that they were glad that I was the one flying that flight that day."

"Why does that make you feel so good?" Couric said.

"Their praise isn't given easily or readily," Sullenberger said.

But this pilot hopes his moment in the spotlight will remind the airlines - and those who fly - that attracting those with the right stuff may make all the difference.


It only took 48 hours :(
 
Sully is full of it. Yeah, I said it. It follows that civi pilots have less experience?!?

You military knuckleheads need to get off your high horse. If the service is so damm great, then why'd you leave?

Well duh, a Marine isn't happy unless he can claim his job is tougher and his circumstances suck worse than everyone else's. So Marine aviators are leaving the Marines in droves to become civilian aviators... because it sucks the most. :D
 

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