It's Time for a Minimum Wage for Airline Pilots

[Dubya]

Dude, like, I fly a jet, brah!



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H6VohN9pyWc/RxCysdsY7iI/AAAAAAAAAOw/y0KuTiTEbNE/s400/jetpilot-scarf.jpg

 

[lookin4better]

Dude, like, I fly a jet, brah!



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H6VohN9pyWc/RxCysdsY7iI/AAAAAAAAAOw/y0KuTiTEbNE/s400/jetpilot-scarf.jpg

Too funny! I think I saw that guy in F Concourse in ORD last time I was there.

brah!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Last week, I had an FO tell me he was moving on to something else because he was "done with aviation"

25 years old, $100,000 in student loans, hired with 300 hours, sat in the right seat for 2 WHOLE YEARS before throwing in the towel! Now he wants to be a nurse....$80,000 more in debt!! Riddle told him he would be a 777 capt by now and it hasn't happened yet so he's outta here.

Ran into another with a wife and 2 kids. After 2 years wants to give up and go back to school. Time to man up and support your family not chase another dream.

Do these people even do any research before entering into this profession? Ask the 10 year Eagle FO's if it has been a long road.

Get the ******************** out and good riddance I say!!

 

[Dubya]

Last week, I had an FO tell me he was moving on to something else because he was "done with aviation"

25 years old, $100,000 in student loans, hired with 300 hours, sat in the right seat for 2 WHOLE YEARS before throwing in the towel! Now he wants to be a nurse....$80,000 more in debt!! Riddle told him he would be a 777 capt by now and it hasn't happened yet so he's outta here.

Ran into another with a wife and 2 kids. After 2 years wants to give up and go back to school. Time to man up and support your family not chase another dream.

Do these people even do any research before entering into this profession? Ask the 10 year Eagle FO's if it has been a long road.

Get the ******************** out and good riddance I say!!

Seriously. These are the same ones that complain about being away from home and staying in hotels.

What? Airline pilots travel?? Really? I'm going to be away from home and have to stay in hotels?? Wow, that never occured to me.

 

[lookin4better]

Last week, I had an FO tell me he was moving on to something else because he was "done with aviation"

25 years old, $100,000 in student loans, hired with 300 hours, sat in the right seat for 2 WHOLE YEARS before throwing in the towel! Now he wants to be a nurse....$80,000 more in debt!! Riddle told him he would be a 777 capt by now and it hasn't happened yet so he's outta here.

Ran into another with a wife and 2 kids. After 2 years wants to give up and go back to school. Time to man up and support your family not chase another dream.

Do these people even do any research before entering into this profession? Ask the 10 year Eagle FO's if it has been a long road.

Get the ******************** out and good riddance I say!!

THIS is the entire problem..... these boys get a job and think they should be Captains 6 months out of training. ......they don't get it. Cry babies.... you can hear them on the radio.... they sound grouchy/sad/demoralized...... so funny to hear them! Like you said....see ya!!! don't let the door hit you on the way out "brahs!"

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

$50,000 a year for FOs minimum? Well, that would work to get more people interested in the industry. Of course, it would put many regionals out of business as well, or it would result in captain pay being MUCH less.

Choose your poison.

WRONG!

The only thing corporations do is what is best for the bottom line or what they are mandated to do by law.

Federal legisation mandating reasonable and fair wages for pilots will simply get it done. Management will actually have to do thier jobs and run the airline instead of looking for wage subsidies from labor.


Of course corp subsidies from the govt (Wall St.) are just good ol American Capitalism.....



Where the hell is John Galt?

 

[TransMach]

Minimum Wage

THERE IS A REGULATORY MINIMUM HOURLY WAGE FOR EACH HOUR WORKED. THERE IS A FEDERAL MINIMUM AND EACH STATE HAS IT'S MINIMUM, OFTEN MORE THAN THE FEDERAL. Pilots do not qualify in any state to be an exempt employee, that is exempt from state wage and hours rules. In California you MUST be paid for each hour you work, and overtime (read time and a half) for each hour over 8 per day or 40 per week.

This is the primary reason airlines usher in a union to represent the pilot group. Once the collective barganing unit (read pilot group) and the employer establish a contract, it supersceeds the state and federal minimum wage rules.

We, as pilots, screw ourselves silly.

TransMach

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

THERE IS A REGULATORY MINIMUM HOURLY WAGE FOR EACH HOUR WORKED. THERE IS A FEDERAL MINIMUM AND EACH STATE HAS IT'S MINIMUM, OFTEN MORE THAN THE FEDERAL. Pilots do not qualify in any state to be an exempt employee, that is exempt from state wage and hours rules. In California you MUST be paid for each hour you work, and overtime (read time and a half) for each hour over 8 per day or 40 per week.

This is the primary reason airlines usher in a union to represent the pilot group. Once the collective barganing unit (read pilot group) and the employer establish a contract, it supersceeds the state and federal minimum wage rules.

We, as pilots, screw ourselves silly.

TransMach

oh boy....

 

[RedDogC130]

it is called, quit accepting jobs at a company just to be called and airline pilot and then bitch about the wages after ...now being called an airline pilot which you barely are becuase you are really a contract pilot since your whole company revolves around their contracts...the real airline is the one who you probably claim to work for to strangers at a bar.....I work for Delta....exactly.. "work for Delta" not "at Delta"....I actually caught a guy in that little fib once a few years back, as I am sure most pilots have caught someone at one point or another...kind of funny...and I did not bother to call him out since I was embarassed for him after that statement to begin with.....no need to rub salt in his ego

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

it is called, quit accepting jobs at a company just to be called and airline pilot and then bitch about the wages after ...now being called an airline pilot which you barely are becuase you are really a contract pilot since your whole company revolves around their contracts...the real airline is the one who you probably claim to work for to strangers at a bar.....I work for Delta....exactly.. "work for Delta" not "at Delta"....I actually caught a guy in that little fib once a few years back, as I am sure most pilots have caught someone at one point or another...kind of funny...and I did not bother to call him out since I was embarassed for him after that statement to begin with.....no need to rub salt in his ego

Negative.

You and many others of the 20th Century had the ability to by pass the regionals and make it to a major.

The future of the air line pilot profession will be shouldered by the regionals. Your FOs at SWA will be regional pilots.... most likely RJ Captains who know their stuff......

Most people who don't know who ASA, MESA or who SkyWest is... it is eaiser to say Delta or Delta Connection.....

If pilots want to go to SWA or DAL they are going to have to go to the regionals... it is really the only game in town.....

 

[IBNAV8R]

Sorry, state work laws do not apply. There is federal preemption. Look up Fitzgerald v. SkyWest.

 

[Bringupthebird]

As the commodity nature of the airline business is rapidly headed towards the inevitable introduction of UAV's, pilot pay will continue to plummet. If folks could get on a UAV to Orlando for $40 they'd do it in a heartbeat.

Perhaps their last one, but a heartbeat nonetheless.

 

[RedDogC130]

Negative.

You and many others of the 20th Century had the ability to by pass the regionals and make it to a major.

The future of the air line pilot profession will be shouldered by the regionals. Your FOs at SWA will be regional pilots.... most likely RJ Captains who know their stuff......

Most people who don't know who ASA, MESA or who SkyWest is... it is eaiser to say Delta or Delta Connection.....

If pilots want to go to SWA or DAL they are going to have to go to the regionals... it is really the only game in town.....

I would have to disagree that the regioanls are the only game in town.....I got my commercial license at the end of 1999. I never had to go to a regional and took a different route....flying freight...some part0time charter and then joined the military part-time. It is not an issue of how one gets to where they want to be....I am just tired of reading how bad it is a xyz yet these are the same people who apply to xyz knowing what is out there and still complain....do I feel bad...yes and no...but do some research before you make a decision and stick to it and stop complaining and do something about it....I understand it is a complex industry but I guess in the end we should just thank the pilots of the legacies for making this mess in the first place...sorry for the ramble

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I did freight as you did... but the MIL wasn't in my future... Even so, the MIL isn't going to be the prep school for SWA and other major carriers. As you know the MIL is for defense, not an airline pipeline. I had to go regional... no other choice.. as it will be for so many....

In addition, no one really tells these guys how the regionals are going to be... Who is going to do it? You? You Mr. Cohen? I have more responsibility here.... oops, sorry got carried away...

Fact is all of us, including SWA need to embrace the regional guys for the future of the profession. Without them, no one is going to sling gear for us.... ... or even worse... the FOs that we do get are going to have thick accents and working papers.

Another issue: Currently SWA and the majors enjoy the fact that applicants are getting experience somewhere else: the regionals and MIL. They don't have to train and school applicants on how to fly. It is really just a geek and ass check. After a couple of years in the regionals or MIL... it is obvious you can fly.

However, if the push is out there... for the legacies to start flying regional jets, where is the training time going to come from? The Golden age of the FE watching the way it was done is over....

May we live in interesting times...

 

[RedDogC130]

I guess in some ways I agree but the fact of the matter is that the creations of the regional system screwed this industry and will continue forever now. We better preay that the regionals do not become the majority because there goes you leverage and we will all be working for $60 an hour......being an airline pilot does not seem very good when you are making $40K a year driving a RAV 4....doing if for the flying left me a long time ago...now it is for the $$$ and the ease of the job.

 

[Erlanger]

Sorry, state work laws do not apply. There is federal preemption. Look up Fitzgerald v. SkyWest.

Affirming a lower court's ruling, a California appeals court has said SkyWest Airlines Inc.'s method for paying flight attendants does not violate California's minimum wage, meal and rest breaks, and overtime wage requirements.

 

[ATR Pirate]

if passengers would pay a fair price for tickets, maybe we could restore the industry to what it used to be..now everyone hates flying and just complain about all the things the airlines lack..its costs the same today to fly new york to LA as it did in the 1970's..maybe less! pilot quality, and safety have all improved...what came down? oh yeah, pay..

 

[cale42]

The wrinkle that no one wants to discuss is people being forced to start over at multiple regionals. I understand supply and demand and I understand paying my dues. However if we want to keep talented and experienced individuals in this industry we need to figure out a way to fix this.

I've worked for two regionals.. two full years of first year turboprop FO pay. I've gotten my chance to upgrade, been a captain for several years made the sacrifices and gotten my time and proven myself. Now I find myself about to be furloughed yet again and due to the economy my only option is to go back to the right seat of a regional on first year pay yet again if I want to keep flying.

OR I leave aviation and go to another field where I can apply myself and work hard and actually reap some benefits from that. As I read all the articles and watch the Frontline documentary I keep thinking coming back to the same fact. The training and preparation at regionals isn't the whole problem.. it's keeping talent in the cockpit that is probably the single biggest problem.

If there was a minimum wage for "experienced" FO's I would probably try another regional. If I had a guarantee of 40K a year I would suck up reserve again and commuting again. But all that pain for 18 to 19K a year?? I find myself leaning towards leaving aviation. I know I'm not alone in this, many experienced and talented pilots are tired of starting over at the regional level.

I've read this whole thread and flame me if you like, but I did know what I was getting into and I was and remain willing to pay my dues. However not in my wildest dreams did I think I would have to start over at the regionals 3 times in 4 years. Without some sort of minimum wage we will continue to drive many good pilots out of the industry and replace them with 250 hour pilots. If the US wants to be serious about safety this simply has to stop.

my $.02

cale

 

[WayBack]

I guess in some ways I agree but the fact of the matter is that the creations of the regional system screwed this industry and will continue forever now. We better preay that the regionals do not become the majority because there goes you leverage and we will all be working for $60 an hour.....

I believe the regionals fly the most domestic flying. If not, give it time.

if passengers would pay a fair price for tickets, maybe we could restore the industry to what it used to be..now everyone hates flying and just complain about all the things the airlines lack..its costs the same today to fly new york to LA as it did in the 1970's..maybe less! pilot quality, and safety have all improved...what came down? oh yeah, pay..

They could increase ticket prices, but it will never go back to the quality of service or the employees.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess in some ways I agree but the fact of the matter is that the creations of the regional system screwed this industry and will continue forever now. We better preay that the regionals do not become the majority because there goes you leverage and we will all be working for $60 an hour......being an airline pilot does not seem very good when you are making $40K a year driving a RAV 4....doing if for the flying left me a long time ago...now it is for the $$$ and the ease of the job.

The creation of the regional system is no different from any other industry in the US where lower cost and growth are fundamentals. Even the US military outsources. No doubt in the next month you and I will patronize outsourcing in some industry.....

As SWA pilot who do you want to be on the bottom half of the SWA seniority list when you are Capt (if you aren't now...). SWA is dependant on the regionals to provide qualified pilots. Would it be appropriate for SWA pilots to invest in the regionals?