Its on!!! (swa @ den)

[General Lee]

Actually Kelly got just what he wanted. He knew the judge would not accept any bid from us without a Labor Deal. But, by making the deal cost RAH more he weakened a rival. $$$$

Bedford didn't change his original bid, and he went into the bidding process not really knowing if there would be other players. Sounds like you are wrong.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

Why keep spouting off about ATL or DCA slots, or going international? It's not that big of a deal. SWA still makes money and takes care of their employees without it... talk about someone being self absorbed.

SW will go to those places in time, but for now.. who cares except you?

Are the Frontier pilots in any better shape with Bedford? I don't think so, but it will have to play out in the end.

It's about what you could have had. The analysts saw it too. ATL gates and DCA slots are hard to get, and your own pilots wanted to fly INTL, since management didn't trust you.

The F9 pilots are in better shape now then when they were on the brink of liquidation. I think their situation may get better with better financial backing, and their work rules and pay raises will have to come out of future negotiations. We at DL lost a lot during our BK, and we are starting to get some of that back. Heck, you used our rates to get your last contract increase, and we hope to use yours during our next negotiations.

So, just drop the "F9 pilots are going to wish they had taken our krappy offer of a staple" attitude and realize that you both lost. Had you been more fair, you would now rule DEN, had quicker upgrades, and grown larger, faster. Kelly never saw that freight train coming called Bedford. Instead, he was working on a new slogan "It's ON."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[contrail67]

All this means is SWA will try to combat their losses in DEN with more expansion. A costly game of spend more to make more. They will be succesful but I wonder where the tipping point will be.

ITS ON.......more like on the line!

You are right...they will still be bleeding in DEN. This won't stop it. They are getting crushed in DEN....

 

[Cometman]

You are right...they will still be bleeding in DEN. This won't stop it. They are getting crushed in DEN....

Crushed? I don't think so.

 

[ABC123]

Did not WN try this same strategy in PHL and got their butts handed to them???

 

[redflyer65]

So which is it General?

1. They had tremedous value and should have gotten more than complete pay and domicle protection, or

2. The pilots saw the bankruptcy handwriting on the wall and shotgunned out the applications to any and all carriers? (can't say I blame them)

You can't really argue out of both sides of your mouth. They either had bargianing power or they didn't. Not slamming the F9 guys, just a horrible place to be. I'm worried for them now, I believe Bedford will show his true colors eventually.

Someone else made the point that if SW didn't at least throw in a bid, Republic would have gotten F9 for close to nothing. This way that had to pony up quite a bit more than originally planned.

 

[USMC319]

Someone else made the point that if SW didn't at least throw in a bid, Republic would have gotten F9 for close to nothing. This way that had to pony up quite a bit more than originally planned.

This statement is completely and utterly false. Republic's monetary offer did not change after the SWA offer, they merely dropped some of their restrictions and opted out of the Unsecured Creditor's piece of the pie, which amounted to about half of what Frontier made in profits for the month of July.

Ya'all like sour grapes? How do ya like them sour grapes?

 

[redflyer65]

Are you serious?

They dropped their debtor in possesion. You're saying they didn't lose anything? Really?

No sour grapes at all. Enjoy Republic. Owned by a regional. I never thought I'd see the day.

 

[HighSpeed]

"IT'S ON"....

For all you that are getting your panties in a bunch about the thread title - it was in referring to the SWA advertising slogan... Grab your BAG - It's on!!

Thank you very much - please drive through.....

 

[General Lee]

So which is it General?

1. They had tremedous value and should have gotten more than complete pay and domicle protection, or

2. The pilots saw the bankruptcy handwriting on the wall and shotgunned out the applications to any and all carriers? (can't say I blame them)

You can't really argue out of both sides of your mouth. They either had bargianing power or they didn't. Not slamming the F9 guys, just a horrible place to be. I'm worried for them now, I believe Bedford will show his true colors eventually.

Someone else made the point that if SW didn't at least throw in a bid, Republic would have gotten F9 for close to nothing. This way that had to pony up quite a bit more than originally planned.

I am not saying two different things from my keyboard. The pilots pre-BK knew things weren't great, but they didn't just give up and quit. At the same time, there were TWO bids for F9---meaning F9 was gonna make it. The BK judge said the pilot contract was valid, and that meant the pilots would be a part of any deal. Kelly could see value, or he wouldn't have made a bid, and the SWA pilots could see upgrades, a DEN base, and flying that their own management could get (ATL/DCA), along with flying their own management wouldn't allow them to do (INTL). That should have been enough "bait" to make a fair deal. But noooooooooooo. SWAPA wanted it all, and got way way greedy. Kelly thought the F9 guys would bend over and say "it's in" (the new SWA slogan). Both were wrong. Now, F9 is controlled by a fiscally strong company, and will survive another day to compete with SWA, and make it tougher for them to turn a profit in DEN. Oh well.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[USMC319]

Are you serious?

They dropped their debtor in possesion. You're saying they didn't lose anything? Really?

No sour grapes at all. Enjoy Republic. Owned by a regional. I never thought I'd see the day.

Redflyer65,
They did NOT drop their DIP, nobody ever claimed that. In a nutshell; RAH filed a $260mm claim against F9 for dropping their RJ contract. Frontier later agreed a reduced claim of $150mm, which was accepted by the BK judge. RAH leveraged that claim to beat the SWA bid for F9. The beauty of it for Bedford was that it was money never spent, money never lost, money that didn't exist except on the books for unrealized profits of a contract that no longer existed. If SWA prevailed in winning Frontier, RAH would have collected about 12 cents on the dollar for their claim or about $18mm. Instead they got an airline that makes about that much every month in operating profits. No sh!t. What would you do? Plus the day they close the deal they will get 100% of their DIP financing paid back.

For the record, on October 1st, RAH will purchase 100% of the "new" shares of FAH. Frontier Airlines, Inc (a wholely owned FAH subsidiary) will remain an independent and stand-alone airline. Obviously RAH will be able to protect their investment and have influence of FAH as well as its other wholely owned subsidiaries that include the "Regional Airlines" you speak of. In any case there is expansion on the horizon. New bases. Aircraft on order. Furloughs expected to be back on property by summer. Improved CBA in place including raises. I would have been happy with a fair SWA integration but that wasn't on the table and many more furloughs appeared iminent, so most of us are happy with what we got. We'll see.

 

[airlinepilot]

Bedford didn't change his original bid, and he went into the bidding process not really knowing if there would be other players. Sounds like you are wrong.


Bye Bye--General Lee

They didn't change their original bid but they did waive a $150 million unsecured claim they had with Frontier. This was not part of the original deal. It was a last minute thing they did which meant they were actually giving the stock holders, etc more total return $$$$ than SWA

 

[vixin]

It was 450 current and active apps. To be active it must be updated every 6 months. Not the 750 previously mentioned.

 

[N1atEcon]

This thread is dumber than the UAL to not make it through winter thread.
What is up with this place lately? Is there a contest going on to see who can come up with the dumbest post?

 

[redflyer65]

Makes sense USMC. I hope it works out for you guys. I still have friends there and they thought the SWA thing would have been better, but everyone has their own take on it.

I'm most concerned that Bedford will just roll the F9 product into a regional airline with the associated pay rates. I would hate to see that happen and feel like every mainline job needs to be protected in this environment.

Good luck guys.

 

[NWaviator]

AAG will just roll over and let you guys come in to GEG. Although we will have 3-4 RJ's just sitting around they won't do a thing. Enjoy the new routes.

 

[Twin Daddy]

I love F9 and wish all the best.. except Genital Lee. Whoops, better run, got twelve more legs to fly before my 8 hour LBB overnight!

Bye Bye!

 

[Skyboy722]

Frontier Airlines, Inc (a wholely owned FAH subsidiary) will remain an independent and stand-alone airline.

You'll have a legal battle with IBT on this one, if not already, as integration is in thier contract.

In any case there is expansion on the horizon. New bases. Aircraft on order. Furloughs expected to be back on property by summer. Improved CBA in place including raises. I would have been happy with a fair SWA integration but that wasn't on the table and many more furloughs appeared iminent, so most of us are happy with what we got. We'll see.[/

QUOTE]

I still find it amazing that some of you expect to get raises out of Bedford. I wish you the best of luck, really, and I hope you prove me wrong. But I know Bedford better than that.

 

[USMC319]

QUOTE]
I still find it amazing that some of you expect to get raises out of Bedford. I wish you the best of luck, really, and I hope you prove me wrong. But I know Bedford better than that.[/QUOTE]

Be "amazed" as much as you like. We just passed a TA that extends our CBA 3 years and gives us raises above and beyond the pre-concessionary rate as well as job protections. Now, as to the future, anything can happen. We could be sold (50.1%), the future could be fantastic, the future could be sh!tty. Nobody knows, not even the soothsayers here on FI.

 

[Dan Roman]

QUOTE]


Be "amazed" as much as you like. We just passed a TA that extends our CBA 3 years and gives us raises above and beyond the pre-concessionary rate as well as job protections. Now, as to the future, anything can happen. We could be sold (50.1%), the future could be fantastic, the future could be sh!tty. Nobody knows, not even the soothsayers here on FI.

This looks like a pretty realistic perspective. I have nothing against SWA and it's a very good airline. But it seems to me some of their employees here got pretty offended because you guys didn't want to be tacked onto the bottom of their list. You guys coming out of BK will be a much healthier airline and a very strong competitor. I can't see people choosing SWA over F9 given equal fares.
Good luck