It's Official, DALALPA full of crap

[nwaredtail]

Retirement PROMISES. THose guys say they will punch at 60. You actually believe that don't you? :-\

Only 20% of the planned 60 retirements have stayed so far, mostly for the DAL/NWA equity that was "rumored", but 5% of those have now left. Yup, we have lost more guys in 3 months than DAL plans to lose in the next 6 years.

 

[FDJ2]

Only 20% of the planned 60 retirements have stayed so far, mostly for the DAL/NWA equity that was "rumored", but 5% of those have now left. Yup, we have lost more guys in 3 months than DAL plans to lose in the next 6 years.

If true, good for you, one less retirement down the road.

It's all water under the bridge, despite your MEC's desparate attempts to reengage and merge, it's over.

Now just walk away. I wish you guys the best. I hope you do well and get those large contract gains you are most certainly going to achieve 4-6 years from now.

 

[nwaredtail]

If true, good for you, one less retirement down the road.

It's all water under the bridge, despite your MEC's desparate attempts to reengage and merge, it's over.

Now just walk away. I wish you guys the best. I hope you do well and get those large contract gains you are most certainly going to achieve 4-6 years from now.

You know of course that your management went back on almost all the contract improvements and the no furlough clause. right? Without those, the deal is useless.

 

[d.fitz]

It's funny how all the DAL guys act as if this was in the best interest of NWA, and that NWA was lucky to have them as a partner.

It serves both, or neither....

FDJ2 - you keep saying to look it at from your perspective, yet you don't entertain any others... perhaps this was part of the problem, huh?

 

[FDJ2]

You know of course that your management went back on almost all the contract improvements and the no furlough clause. right? Without those, the deal is useless.

Yet your MEC Chairman keeps trying to renengage and breathe life into the merger. Why is that?

Did he hear something he didn't like in an E&FA brief at the last MEC meeting?

Oil has spiked to over $110/bbl, the stock value has plummetted, the value of the transaction is no longer there, so there is much less more money left on the table for pilots to capture.

Didn't I say over a month ago that there was no time for all this huff and puff bluster from your merger committee. Big mistake sending a merger committee to and SLI negotiation with a history of 26 arbitrations and 0 negotiated results when arbitration was off the table. If pilots were to capture value from this transaction. Big mistake sending them to the negotiations with instructions to "get the best deal you can get" and not "get he fairest deal for all the pilots."

Regardless, it's all water under the bridge. Time to move on.

 

[nwaredtail]

It's funny how all the DAL guys act as if this was in the best interest of NWA, and that NWA was lucky to have them as a partner.

It serves both, or neither....

FDJ2 - you keep saying to look it at from your perspective, yet you don't entertain any others... perhaps this was part of the problem, huh?

NWA is the best dance partner of all the legacy carriers. We have our problems, like them all, but DAL pretty much has no other option for a merger. Most of the complainers on FI are widebody F/O's who will see stagnation if we merge, as we all will.

With the contract improvements being "pulled" by RA, this deal quickly went south. Moak can tell himself that he scuttled the deal, but the NWAMEC is doing the they are legally bound to do, protect the careers of NWA pilots.

 

[FDJ2]

With the contract improvements being "pulled" by RA, this deal quickly went south. Moak can tell himself that he scuttled the deal, but the NWAMEC is doing the they are legally bound to do, protect the careers of NWA pilots.

Why is the NWA MEC Chairman trying to breathe new life into this merger days after Lee Moak said there was no basis for agreement and therefore no transaction agreement?

 

[FDJ2]

It's funny how all the DAL guys act as if this was in the best interest of NWA, and that NWA was lucky to have them as a partner.

If done properly over a month ago it could have been a good deal for all.

It serves both, or neither....

That's the nature of the transaction agreement. All sides need to come to agreement that it serves all or there is no deal.

FDJ2 - you keep saying to look it at from your perspective, yet you don't entertain any others... perhaps this was part of the problem, huh?

I've said early on that the perspective of both pilot groups needed to considered and the issues resolved early by a mutually agreed to SLI.

I said over a month ago that it was a big mistake for NWALPA to send a merger committee, with a history of 26 arbitrations and 0 negotiated agreements, to an SLI negotiation that required an expeditious agreement.

I said early on that there was no time for all the huff and puff bluster of a traditional merger SLI if we were to capture the value of this transaction for the benefit of both pilot groups.

The value of the transaction has now been squandered. Despite the continuing efforts of NWALPA to keep this merger and deal alive, and the statements of others that an agreement is still possible at this late date, it is dead. Time to move on.

If we revisit a similar merger situation in the future the same deal will not be presented. Expect to hear the statement "that was then, this is now".

 

[On Your Six]

NWA is the best dance partner of all the legacy carriers. We have our problems, like them all, but DAL pretty much has no other option for a merger. Most of the complainers on FI are widebody F/O's who will see stagnation if we merge, as we all will.

With the contract improvements being "pulled" by RA, this deal quickly went south. Moak can tell himself that he scuttled the deal, but the NWAMEC is doing the they are legally bound to do, protect the careers of NWA pilots.[/quote]

I thought scuttling the deal from the NWA side was protecting the "career expectations" of the NWA pilots. Funny how previous career expectations are now a distorted view of reality in the age of $110+ oil.

 

[nwaredtail]

Why is the NWA MEC Chairman trying to breathe new life into this merger days after Lee Moak said there was no basis for agreement and therefore no transaction agreement?

Actaully, I heard Moak called for more meetings and when NWAMEC said no thank you, he let out the false info to the press, thus using managments old "negotiate through the press" technique.

Also, how was your last merger with Western handled?

You guys are so funny how this would have been a windfall for NWA guys, yet all of the good stuff was taken away at the last minute. No way it could have happened fast enough to get the $$$$. Without the money, it's an A$$ ram for NWA.

 

[Noserider76]

Why would management withdraw pilot incentives for the deal without any warning or deadline (at least that I know of)? It seems as though they had second thoughts on the merger. Could oil prices have affected the numbers? Did the hedge funds backing the deal eat the big one in the stock market downturn? Did the price of DAL/NWA stock have anything to do with it? I wonder if we'll ever know.

Both sides were put in a very tough position. This was uncharted territory. When was the last time pilots had any say in a merger or stood to gain from it. I don't blame either side for not being able to pull off a decision in a couple months when we have other groups out there still fighting several years after their merger. And what's the point of all the "your airline's going down the sh*tter without this merger" posts?

 

[DAL737FO]

Nope, I don't favor a position that let's DAL pilots move up in seniority vacancies that were created by retirements of NWA pilots. Especially, since there would be very few retirements at DAL. Throw in:

It's funny how NWA guys throw this statement around like it is the truth. Your retirements outpace ours at Delta until 2020 then from 2021 on ours outpace yours by double. So who is going to be winning in that situation? Why do you guys always stop at the next ten years and not for the airline life of the most junior guy on property?

-767 pilots that are paid as narrowbody pilots wanting be to counted as widebody pilots. There's some "ex-wife" logic.

Let's see our 757's pay the same as our 767's which is $160/hr. Your A330's pay $162/hr and your 757's pay $144/hr which is closer to our payrates? Come on it's not a hard question. Additionally you guys fly the 747-400 at $179/hr where our 777's are $191/hr and our 767-400's are $181/hr. So who should be worried?

-No credit for fuel efficient 787 options, but DAL gets credit for their fewer A/C options. DUHHHHH

Good for you. Give us a call once the airplane actually flies.

-Furloughs would be mostly NWA pilots

If I heard our reps right the furloughs WOULD happen mostly from the NWA side IF it was due to parking the DC9 fleet. Which by the way you guys are bringing to the dance.

-managament going back on the economic package (well, no sh*t) and the no furlough protection

Sorry, We will dance alone.

As will we. Good luck to you guys. I think we are all in for another ride.

 

[DTW320]

Why would management withdraw pilot incentives for the deal without any warning or deadline (at least that I know of)? It seems as though they had second thoughts on the merger. Could oil prices have affected the numbers? Did the hedge funds backing the deal eat the big one in the stock market downturn? Did the price of DAL/NWA stock have anything to do with it? I wonder if we'll ever know.

Both sides were put in a very tough position. This was uncharted territory. When was the last time pilots had any say in a merger or stood to gain from it. I don't blame either side for not being able to pull off a decision in a couple months when we have other groups out there still fighting several years after their merger. And what's the point of all the "your airline's going down the sh*tter without this merger" posts?

Credit where credit is due. Very good post Noserider

 

[~~~^~~~]

That is the way business works. When a client comes to me and offers me work, if I do not instantly say "yes" the offer is withdrawn.

This was not a section 6 negotiation, it was business. In the interim material factors did change and the offer was withdrawn.

Might come back, probably will not. That's the business world.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Is it me or is seniority system/concept one big evil?

It's the disease and we keep complaining about the symptoms......