It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Lear70]

Are you not one of the 175 FO's that got this?

If not, then no offense, but I wouldn't consider you a senior FO. Evidently, neither did your NC. They were the ones that decided what to do with the half million that GK gave you all.

I understand that, and opinions vary, although I'd argue that bidding #7 in base, all weekends off and holidays, and scheduled to upgrade with our current order of aircraft is "senior" as seen by other AAI F/O's, but hey, what do I know, I just work here.

(I just barely missed the cutoff for that, as well as the cutoff for Club 649).

The fact remains that many of your F/O's who are junior to me by Date of Hire will get something that I don't in several respects. The ability to bid better schedules, the extra pay if they get "stuck" with one of our very junior CA's (like Dicko said, unlikely, but it's there), and the ability to upgrade before I do, even if they're junior to me by date of hire and they STAY senior to me my entire career.

There ARE gains on your side over ours in this deal. If you don't want to recognize them, that's fine, that's completely your choice, and you are, of course, free to vote accordingly.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You know what, you're right. I can't believe that I thought that a lot of money could possibly be a windfall.

I'm so stupid.

Of course I am. Its a SENIORITY LIST INTEGRATION not a PAY LIST INTEGRATION. And the first step to recovery is admitting your problem.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Of course I am. Its a SENIORITY LIST INTEGRATION not a PAY LIST INTEGRATION. And the first step to recovery is admitting your problem.

Only a complete mental pygmy would argue that comparative pay and contracts should have no bearing on an SLI. And to solidify your status as a mental pygmy, you made the moronic statement that the term windfall has nothing to do with financial gains.

I'm done here. There's nothing more that can be said. But please, feel free to keep blathering, as it only serves to prove my points.

 

[On Your Six]

Only a complete mental pygmy would argue that comparative pay and contracts should have no bearing on an SLI. And to solidify your status as a mental pygmy, you made the moronic statement that the term windfall has nothing to do with financial gains.

I'm done here. There's nothing more that can be said. But please, feel free to keep blathering, as it only serves to prove my points.

That's exactly what happened in the DL/NWA SLI. The payrates were settled beforehand, and then the SLI was done by arbitrators. Payrates also didn't seem to matter to the arbitrator in the Colgan/PNCL/Mesaba SLI. Colgan was paid less than almost everyone, yet their pilots were mixed in equally with their jet pilot counterparts. Looks like you are done here.


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

Ok- everyone here was either in the military or left another airline-

Why did you leave to start over at THE BOTTOM?

 

[On Your Six]

Ok- everyone here was either in the military or left another airline-

Why did you leave to start over at THE BOTTOM?

More choices? A better future?


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

More choices? A better future?


OYS

Go on... Define better future

 

[Fubijaakr]

That's exactly what happened in the DL/NWA SLI. The payrates were settled beforehand, and then the SLI was done by arbitrators. Payrates also didn't seem to matter to the arbitrator in the Colgan/PNCL/Mesaba SLI. Colgan was paid less than almost everyone, yet their pilots were mixed in equally with their jet pilot counterparts. Looks like you are done here.

Exactly. All these guys are hanging their hat (if they wear one, that is!) on is the Shuttle America arbitration.

NO OTHER arbitration has used pay rates for SLI.

The only thing waveygravey is fishing for is, "We went to another airline or from the military for a better paycheck." No ********************, Sherlock.

However, he still won't say why it matters how much another SWA pilot makes, does he?

The only reason it matters is that is wavey's reason for stealing someone else's seniority and jumping the line for an upgrade so....

Wait for it....

Wait for it...

HE CAN MAKE MORE MONEY!

What a surprise.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Your entire argument is based on a faulty premise, i.e. that the conditions that were in force before the merger should remain in force after the merger. Again, the whole "career expectations" b.s.

Career expectations was introduced as a way to keep pilots whose airline consisted of narrowbody equipment off the widebody equipment of their merger partner. It was, in effect, just a way of relegating those "inferior" narrowbody pilots from the high paying widebody international flying.

It was, to put it bluntly, a seniority grab. Those pilots who were hired at the widebody operator thought they were "entitled" to those seats because, after all, the narrowbody guys had no "expectation" of ever flying one.

Its the same thing you guys are trying to do to AAI pilots, only you're using pay as the "career expectation".

The single biggest mistake ALPA has made in 50 years was rolling over to UAL pilots in the early '90s and removing DoH as a criteria for SLI mergers and replacing it with "career expectations." And the whole reason they did it was to keep USAir pilots "in their place" in a merger that never went through.

Look, fair is fair. At some point, you're all going to be one group. If SWA persists in trying to make AAI guys second class citizens by stapleing 650 pilots and banning them from upgrading, YOU as a Captain are going to have CRM problems when you fly with them.

Do you really think those stapled pilots aren't going to have a list of guys who jumped the line ahead of them? Your vaunted "SWA culture" is going to take a huge hit. There are still guys who are chapped about the AS/JA SLI and that went down in 1987.

Really, guys. Get over yourselves. Every single red herring you try to apply to screw the AAI pilots is bogus and deep down you know it. You're just trying to advance yourselves at the expense of other guys you're going to have to see every day for the rest of your careers.

Fuji see below still waiting for a response

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Fuji OK I'll play. Lets, as you suggested, abandon the premis that conditions that existed before the acquisition should me maintained after the acquistion. You like a DOH solution. I'll go with that as long as there is a complete system rebid based on that list afterwards. We would have to because the conditions that were in place prior to the acquisition are meaningless afterwards. Therefore there would be no way that a 6 year guy should remain a captain while a 10 year guy is an f/o.

Still waiting for a reply