Its Fractional King Air Time

[fischman]

Sure was nice of them to broadcast the Global for NetJets during Kenny's debut.

 

[jonjuan]

Sure was nice of them to broadcast the Global for NetJets during Kenny's debut.

Yep-I thought-that's a big "King" as he put it. A few other strange comments:
-It's a turbojet engine.
-it's the safest plane in the world. The military uses it.
He kept talking about cost per seat with 8 people on board. Andrew Sorkin jumped in and said "If you fill all the seats."
-it has Internet, but good luck using it for long when much of the time on these shorter, regional trips will be below 10K.
-Who will fly these "Kings?" With what they are charging, what can they realistically pay their pilots? Sounds like they'll all have to live in the NE. Will it be single pilot?
-What's the average pax load? It surely isn't anywhere near 8.

 

[BentOver]

Yup this will work because what could go wrong with a startup turbo prop fractional that charges almost as much as chartering a nice shiny jet...

Remember all Kenny did with marquis is resell a commodity that already had a great reputation. And at a time when the rich spent frivolously...

 

[AftCG182]

I have thought about this equation for years. King Air 350's used in fractional ownership.

Start up with 105 orders and wants to be attached to a jet provider

I have thought for years about how well the King Air would work in certain areas of the country.

Oh well. Now we will see If I was right or wrong because its "King Air Fractional" time.

What do you think?

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...s-card-founder-back-king-air-350i-flight-club

You've been waiting for this, eh raj? :laugh:

 

[gunfyter]

Yup this will work because what could go wrong with a startup turbo prop fractional that charges almost as much as chartering a nice shiny jet...

Remember all Kenny did with marquis is resell a commodity that already had a great reputation. And at a time when the rich spent frivolously...

I have always thought you get there no faster in a jet than in a King Air for short stage lengths ....

I asked this about the P180 and I was corrected on their landing performance by a few people here; but, what would you rather be in when going to a field with contaminated or wet runways -- a jet with no t/r s or a King Air?

 

[scarface]

Not that it's a congruent argument but years ago I made the turboprop vs jet pitch in the Harrisburg to EWR segment of our operation. I can't remember the exact numbers but the King Air 200 only took a couple of more minutes than a Sabreliner at a significantly less operating expense;however, the high rollers wanted a jet come he'll or high water.

 

[BentOver]

I have always thought you get there no faster in a jet than in a King Air for short stage lengths ....

I asked this about the P180 and I was corrected on their landing performance by a few people here; but, what would you rather be in when going to a field with contaminated or wet runways -- a jet with no t/r s or a King Air?

Not sure, I've always had TR's and the C90 I flew had terrible brakes. I get the short stage lengths producing nearly the same travel times, and there are numerous variables we could talk about (ie max altitudes for WX avoidance, payload, performance numbers etc). Fact is there is always gonna be a best a/c for different missions. In this case there is 1 model and it is designed for shorter flights, but that leaves out the people who want to head from NY to say TX or similar...

It's not really the a/c that makes me think this won't work.. Although I think the general public( those that can afford luxury travel) would look at what you get for the $$ and still pick even a Beechjet...

The CNBC video is kinda of sketchy as to exactly how the model operates. For $15750 you get to join a club, then pay the usually operating fees etc... But there is an awful lot of talk about filing the a/c with 8 passengers, and KD mentions a/c sharing for things like the Super Bowl... To me it seems like the way that passengers actually get their monies worth is if you have to travel an hour or 2 with multiple passengers.

Can a 350 hold 8 passengers, luggage and 8 golf bags? That seems difficult for even a G or Falcon?

It may work, like the way Planesense works.. But for a guy like KD, this doesn't seem like something that is all that sexy or will produce the cash flow he is accustom to... Maybe if he can join this up with another jet operator to create a larger operation. Or eventually sell it to a fractional that wants to add a lower end market to their portfolio?

 

[johnsonrod]

No big surprise, but a lot of wealthy people in the NE spend significant time in Florida. Although not as fast as a jet, the P180 could make it down to PBI from TEB or HPN in about 3-3.5 hours - right? So how long will it take in a KA350? No doubt the KA350 will be great for quick flights to Nantucket with the extended family, but how long will most of the NY-FL flights take on average?

The big advantage for the KA350 is economics and decent speed on shorter regional flights requiring more than 5-6 people and all of their bags (even though it can fly very long legs). Will this airplane fit the NY-FL shuttle with its relative slower speed?

I guess the Alpha Flying PC12s fly those routes in the winter, so there will be some market for it.

 

[say again]

No big surprise, but a lot of wealthy people in the NE spend significant time in Florida. Although not as fast as a jet, the P180 could make it down to PBI from TEB or HPN in about 3-3.5 hours - right? So how long will it take in a KA350? No doubt the KA350 will be great for quick flights to Nantucket with the extended family, but how long will most of the NY-FL flights take on average?

The big advantage for the KA350 is economics and decent speed on shorter regional flights requiring more than 5-6 people and all of their bags (even though it can fly very long legs). Will this airplane fit the NY-FL shuttle with its relative slower speed?

I guess the Alpha Flying PC12s fly those routes in the winter, so there will be some market for it.

I flew a 350 down a few times from NJ-FL and averaged between 3.5 and 4 hrs. Worst time was almost 4.5 going down, best was 2:45 coming up. Great bird, but for shorter legs, IMHO

 

[jonjuan]

That and many people won't get near props, no matter the cost. I keep coming back to cheaper costs. This also means cheaper pilots (read: lower time/experience, paid) than nj pilots, for example. With lower salaries and benefits (presumably), the turnover will be greater, keeping overall experience at levels lower than at NJ, exspecially with airlines about to hire in large numbers. This will be a competitive point (pro-legacy frax).
On the other hand, if you were to say it will target people who couldn't otherwise afford fractional, the costs seem to be awfully high.

 

[T-1GUY]

Im guessing all those prior Avantair customers all tied up in lawsuits are just chomping at the bit to pay into another unproven single airplane prop operation. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[AftCG182]

I flew a 350 down a few times from NJ-FL and averaged between 3.5 and 4 hrs. Worst time was almost 4.5 going down, best was 2:45 coming up. Great bird, but for shorter legs, IMHO

It's all going to boil down to the lower price point. Smart, very smart. "Lower-end" Fractional service vs. "First Class" airline nightmare... You KNOW who's going to win. Dichter's a genius. It's going to work; we all know it. My resume will be one of the first that they get.

Just like Avantair, the Wheels Up concept isn't competing with any of the current major players. Best of luck to us all...

Difference is... the new operation seems to be a LEGIT operation, free of self serving, greedy ******************************bags that have put my Company out of business so that they can acquire yahts (that require Captains), vacation homes, unnecessary housing subsidies, custom motorcycles, $17,000 golf carts... more will come out as the investigation progresses...

Oh yeah, penalties for the offshore accounts will pile on as they surface and more evidence is compiled... Authorities are on it. Expect updates as information comes to light...

Enjoy your time in the Federal penn, azzholes... fvckwads...

Lookin' forward to the perp walk in Tampa... :smash:

 

[AftCG182]

I'm slightly dissatisfied with the current position in my Professional life...

I'm going to listen to hard core metal while enjoying a few more Four Locos.

Please ignore anything that I post from now, 'till tomorrow...

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

I'm slightly dissatisfied with the current position in my Professional life...

I'm going to listen to hard core metal while enjoying a few more Four Locos.

Please ignore anything that I post from now, 'till tomorrow...

Kool-Aid and props will do that!

 

[Capt. JD]

Kool-Aid and props will do that!

It a sad day when the Kool-Aid goes bad & there is nothing to drink on hot sweaty days!

Difference is... the new operation seems to be a LEGIT operation, free of self serving, greedy ******************************bags that have put my Company out of business so that they can acquire yahts (that require Captains), vacation homes, unnecessary housing subsidies, custom motorcycles, $17,000 golf carts... more will come out as the investigation progresses...

Oh yeah, penalties for the offshore accounts will pile on as they surface and more evidence is compiled... Authorities are on it. Expect updates as information comes to light...

Enjoy your time in the Federal penn, azzholes... fvckwads...

Lookin' forward to the perp walk in Tampa... :smash:

Watching $atan & McThief go down might be the highlight of a career!