It's a No

[Gr82Aviate]

True. Very true. Although if you had the same weenies representing the union as SAPA, they Skywest pilots would be in trouble regardless.

That was the beauty of getting real representation...we had some great people on the OC that would have actually looked out for the guys that elected them!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Who's talking about Mesa and PCL??? Instead of using the bottom of the barrel why not compare Horizon and Continental Express?????

Because pay isn't the only measure..... How are Horizon and XJT in terms of growth? Horizon has stagnated and lost the Frontier flying, and XJT lost 69 planes for CAL.... Growth and good pay are important..... Skywest has had BOTH.....

Who else can claim that.......????

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

News flash Rez.... that statement applies to most airline pilots.... union and non-union.... Whether it is scope, mergers, age 60, or contract issues..... ALPA pilots will throw ALPA pilots under the bus just as quick as anyone, and the majority of us understand that..........

Joe... you never learn.... you love to point out problems.... and feel smug when you do... all you are is the snot nosed kid that said "I told you so.." Well if you are pessimistic then sooner or later a failure will come around... so its not that you are smart...

You are enjoying this loss becuase you feel good when others fail.... because it makes your failures comparable... and if everybody sucks then perhaps you don't suck that much... but that is just your perception...

Yep Joe...most pilots do think that way...ALPA or not... but do you think we have a better chance with or without a commonality....

ALPA is going to have to do better.

Someone will have to do better.... right you are again Joe... damm you are smart.. what a guy...

Do you think you can do better too?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe... you never learn.... you love to point out problems.... and feel smug when you do... all you are is the snot nosed kid that said "I told you so.." Well if you are pessimistic then sooner or later a failure will come around... so its not that you are smart...

You are enjoying this loss becuase you feel good when others fail.... because it makes your failures comparable... and if everybody sucks then perhaps you don't suck that much... but that is just your perception...

Yep Joe...most pilots do think that way...ALPA or not... but do you think we have a better chance with or without a commonality....

That's the problem Rez...... we don't have "commonality"..... I want "commonality" and ALPA hasn't delivered it.......

Contrary to your misinformation, I'm not happy about this, as it will put more pressure on us at ASA..... That isn't good..... The whipsaw will continue.....

My life and my career doesn't "suck" as you seem to think..... I want to protect my job and ALPA can't do that..... ALPA needs to evolve, or it needs to die.... The choice is up to those of you who still believe in it...... I no longer do..........

 

[JoeMerchant]

Someone will have to do better.... right you are again Joe... damm you are smart.. what a guy...

Do you think you can do better too?

YES.....

 

[capt. megadeth]

That was the beauty of getting real representation...we had some great people on the OC that would have actually looked out for the guys that elected them!

Yeah, well too bad 65% of the pilot group apparently thinks Brad Holt, Chip Childs (or whatever) and Jerry will look after them better than their own pilots! IMO, they showed how much they care with that pathetic pay package. How can someone not see that? Let's not forget "SAPA" either......they need a swift kick in the a$$ too.

 

[capt. megadeth]

YES.....

Ok then, why don't you start a Regional Pilot Union?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ok then, why don't you start a Regional Pilot Union?

That won't solve the problem either......

We will still have whipsaw..... Either stop the whipsaw within a brand, or compete for the flying and protect your own job.... Those are the current options......

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Because pay isn't the only measure..... How are Horizon and XJT in terms of growth? Horizon has stagnated and lost the Frontier flying, and XJT lost 69 planes for CAL.... Growth and good pay are important..... Skywest has had BOTH.....

Who else can claim that.......????

So why not use all the facts? XJT is still flying all those planes(they didn't lose any of them)! They even managed to pick up DC flying(15 planes planes out of LAX) that we were told couldn't happen(since supposedly anyone like XJT with not only much higher compensation, but better work rules and a higher match on their 401K and even a real pension plan...could not possibly pick up any DC flying since they wouldn't be competitive)!!


As for Horizon, have a buddy there that makes considerably more than I do even though he started there 4 years after I did here...Guess paying someone $30 an hour more and matching 10% on their 401K really does make a difference?!!!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Yeah, well too bad 65% of the pilot group apparently thinks Brad Holt, Chip Childs (or whatever) and Jerry will look after them better than their own pilots! IMO, they showed how much they care with that pathetic pay package. How can someone not see that? Let's not forget "SAPA" either......they need a swift kick in the a$$ too.

When you're right, you're right!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

So why not use all the facts? XJT is still flying all those planes(they didn't lose any of them)! They even managed to pick up DC flying(15 planes planes out of LAX) that we were told couldn't happen(since supposedly anyone like XJT with not only much higher compensation, but better work rules and a higher match on their 401K and even a real pension plan...could not possibly pick up any DC flying since they wouldn't be competitive)!!

OK, how about the rest of the "facts" you left out...

The DAL flying was bid below everyone else because it was cheaper to fly them for DAL then to park them... XJT underbid EVERYONE for that flying....

As for the rest of the "independent" flying, I understand it isn't doing that well...... ACA tried it and I suspect XJT will lose money on that flying.... They would have been better off keeping the CAL flying......

 

[Gr82Aviate]

OK, how about the rest of the "facts" you left out...

The DAL flying was bid below everyone else because it was cheaper to fly them for DAL then to park them... XJT underbid EVERYONE for that flying....

As for the rest of the "independent" flying, I understand it isn't doing that well...... ACA tried it and I suspect XJT will lose money on that flying.... They would have been better off keeping the CAL flying......

Rest of facts? Yes, they must have had a good bid to get the flying, but that's the point! They won the bid, and are still making money on the Delta flying...just not the huge margins that JA is with ASA and Skyw(and they won the bid, even though they pay their flightcrews considerably more)! As for their independent flying, from my friends that work there I'm told loads are getting better as they get rid of some of the worse runs, and add flying to more lucrative markets.



Then there's still the issue of my buddy at Horizon with almost half a decade less seniority, that makes considerably more than I do?!

 

[flynryan15]

Curious how much of a paycut did my pilot group take to get the Delta flying? How many work rules did we give up?

We didn't lose 69 aircraft for CAL. Kelner decided to diversify the regional feed!!!While reducing the over all amount of 50 seat aircraft in the CAL system..

I thank the powers to be for not just giving CHQ those 69 aircraft. They have put them to work and did not ask me to give back one dime.

 

[John Pennekamp]

What a load of Horsesqueeze..... ALPA will continue to ignore the whipsaw issue and will continue ignore the problems that have caused it to lose leverage.....

Neil Bortz called... he wants his quote back.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Joe...you never have had solutions.... all you do is whine and complain.... we got and get it....

While you like tell everyone about failures... (except your own: your failed ALPA elected postion and RJDC debacle) you don't know how to progress... you can't bring people together...and since you can't do that you'll never know if problems can be solved...

Finally... part of the reason SKYW failed is YOU. You get on this message board with your bile and hate that is really your own dirty laundry and it turned potential members off...

And then you've got the arrogance to come on here and cheer the failure... You are what is wrong with ALPA. You are why pilots will always be thier own worst enemy.. and deep down inside you know this... you just try run your hate machine so you don't have to self reflect...