It's 12:01, where is UAL?

[ferlo]

I'm embarrassed for anyone who is considering applying. That airline should be drown in the river like the diseased animal it is.

they flat out raped it's pilots and stole everything they've ever worked for and totally failed to honor any promise they've ever made.

United Airlines is an organized criminal institution. The top ten execs should be dragged out into the street receive what they deserve.

"best of the best"...go f-yourself United.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

VTWO: I've heard pilots at UAL describe their airline that way. I've also heard pilots at Alaska say that, NWA, DAL, CAL USAir, etc., etc.

The reason people would take a job like that, obviously, is that it is either better working conditions than where they're at, the pay is better, or both.

I have applied at DAL, and will at NWA, even though some people have said those jobs are bad. I did not, however, apply yet at UAL, because I think that DAL and NWA are better for me right now.

If UAL improves that may not be true.

And, bottom line, no one knows how those airlines will perform down the road. I want to fly for about 20 more years. I have no idea which PAX airline is better in the long run. UAL may turn out to be the best, and I may be making a mistake by not applying yet.

52560: OBVIOUSLY, if you apply sooner than someone else, and you have the SAME qualifications, you WILL have an interview sooner than them. Once you're at the interview, who knows.

cliff
YIP

 

[iaflyer]

To avoid the United application from timing out (on page 4, the one with flight times) and you losing all your hard work, put more than 1000 characters in one of the text boxes. Then hit Submit or confirm at the bottom of the page. The page will come back with an error and not go to the next page.
As you fill out your time, every two minutes or so hit the button at the bottom again - this will prevent the page from timing out.

I was happy I had my time in a electronic logbook - it really made filling out the flight times easy.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm embarrassed for anyone who is considering applying. That airline should be drown in the river like the diseased animal it is.

they flat out raped it's pilots and stole everything they've ever worked for and totally failed to honor any promise they've ever made.

United Airlines is an organized criminal institution. The top ten execs should be dragged out into the street receive what they deserve.

"best of the best"...go f-yourself United.

The same could easily be said of US Airways.

Or Northwest.

 

[av8er2]

Why would you want to subject yourself and your family to a life of uncertainty, instability, low wages, crappy work rules, missing your kids plays and ball games, not making your cousins wedding, the empty plate at Thanksgiving table where you said you would make it in time, but now you missed your commute flight home and have to buy a hotel ,missing Christmas with your family, spending New Years, in a crappy hotels while your wife is at her works party with the new cute guy from upstairs, then when you get laid off, you wife is going to want you to step up and make some money doing what ever you can.

Whoa I got off on a rant sorry,
Good luck with your shiny jet syndrome hope it all work out in the end for ya

Well said. Look at the pay rates, that is no future.

 

[igneousy2]

Why would you want to subject yourself and your family to a life of uncertainty, instability, low wages, crappy work rules, missing your kids plays and ball games, not making your cousins wedding, the empty plate at Thanksgiving table where you said you would make it in time, but now you missed your commute flight home and have to buy a hotel ,missing Christmas with your family, spending New Years, in a crappy hotels while your wife is at her works party with the new cute guy from upstairs, then when you get laid off, you wife is going to want you to step up and make some money doing what ever you can.

Whoa I got off on a rant sorry,
Good luck with your shiny jet syndrome hope it all work out in the end for ya

Sounds like almost any job in this whole POS industry. If I was in my 20's again then I would have definetly chosen a different path. I could have gotten that MBA or that JD for the same amount of money or less than my ratings cost. All of my peers chose different paths and all have been making 150K plus for years. Unfortunately I passed my "career V1" 10 years ago and I have to make every decision looking forward. Yes it would have been nice to make $300K as an airline pilot and only work 10 days a month but with a very few exceptions those days are over.

The main decision factor for me looking forward is domiciles. If it's all a house of cards anyway - I might as well be close to home.

Good luck

 

[NEDude]

Is anyone else angry about this? I spent years at a @#*&% regional just hoping for that brass ring of a nice major airline job. Now that the majors are hiring I am looking at pay wages so low that I haven't made that little money since I was a Beech 1900 FO. Between eating savings and not puting as much into a 401k, it will take 5+ years to even think about getting back to where I am now. I am pretty angry about that fact.

Am I alone in this?

 

[crashpad]

Great - keep the myth alive! Walk into their ORD ops today and you will see 95% white males, most have an ex-military look to them. I realize it makes a lot of people feel better about themselves to believe somebody else is unqualified or inferior, so keep it coming.

Right on, Bubba! It's time we stick it to the man!
Oh wait, you ARE The Man! So I guess you're just sticking it to yourself.....HA, that's rich!

 

[deluxxx]

It was about 10:12 before I could log in, but fortunately I did not encounter any problems. Can you go back on line and change sections, or do you have to wait 6 months?

 

[JohnyChimpo22]

Question. If I filled out the whole application and then a few hours went back and caught an error. Am I changing the app they recieved or do I have to wait six months to update it. It said you could only update every six months, but I can still get on and change things. Thanks

 

[El Pobre]

Is anyone else angry about this? I spent years at a @#*&% regional just hoping for that brass ring of a nice major airline job. Now that the majors are hiring I am looking at pay wages so low that I haven't made that little money since I was a Beech 1900 FO. Between eating savings and not puting as much into a 401k, it will take 5+ years to even think about getting back to where I am now. I am pretty angry about that fact.

Am I alone in this?

Hmmm...let's think about this... Some regionals start paying their FO's $19/hr most FO pays top out between $35-$45 after 10 years. A ten year Captain tops out around $70-80. Yet...there is no shortage of people willing (and even eager) to fly for those wages...just like you were. Nothing personal here...stick with me.

I remember about 2 years ago jumpseating on a regional airline. The Capt and FO (super nice guys both) were talking about how excited they were about the current expansion going on at the airline and how it was enabling them to move up in seniority quickly. I asked them why was the expansion so fast (when seemingly everyone else was cutting back) and they said they didn't know. I said " is alot of it coming from XXX (mainline carrier?)" and the Captain said, and I quote "I don't care that's not my problem." That sort of ended the conversation there, since I was a most gracious jumpseater and didn't feel that it was polite to point out how someday it might be his problem.

The point is that much of the downward trend in pilots salaries at the mainlines has come from the competition and the outsourcing done to the regionals, which compete by offering lower salaries to all employees across the board.

I wonder if now that Captain that I flew with is like you going...."What the heck...were did that brass ring go?" Well the point is...it is his problem now.

I have advocated for a while that ALPA set a minimum wage for all airlines....IE- No FO for any carrier represented by ALPA will fly for less than what the lowest paid full time TSA agent makes. It's a quantifiable number and most pax that I fly with are amazed (actually astounded might be a better word) when I tell them that the FO probably makes alot less then the super professional TSA agent that waved them through the security checkpoint.

I think it's becuse they aren't all that impressed with the TSA bubbas and procedures and they would like to think that they are in better hands when they are airborne.

Anyhow, my point is, that until we bring up the payscales at the lower part of the industry, you will not find your brass ring anytime soon at a major passenger carrier. I suspect that UAL will have NO PROBLEM filling thier vacancies with eager pilots willing to fly at thier current rates with no pension etc.

OK fire back now....but remember...economics is economics. Oh yeah, and the good news is you now have an extra five years to look for that ring.

 

[27 driver]

Hmmm...let's think about this... Some regionals start paying their FO's $19/hr most FO pays top out between $35-$45 after 10 years. A ten year Captain tops out around $70-80. Yet...there is no shortage of people willing (and even eager) to fly for those wages...just like you were. Nothing personal here...stick with me.

I remember about 2 years ago jumpseating on a regional airline. The Capt and FO (super nice guys both) were talking about how excited they were about the current expansion going on at the airline and how it was enabling them to move up in seniority quickly. I asked them why was the expansion so fast (when seemingly everyone else was cutting back) and they said they didn't know. I said " is alot of it coming from XXX (mainline carrier?)" and the Captain said, and I quote "I don't care that's not my problem." That sort of ended the conversation there, since I was a most gracious jumpseater and didn't feel that it was polite to point out how someday it might be his problem.

The point is that much of the downward trend in pilots salaries at the mainlines has come from the competition and the outsourcing done to the regionals, which compete by offering lower salaries to all employees across the board.

I wonder if now that Captain that I flew with is like you going...."What the heck...were did that brass ring go?" Well the point is...it is his problem now.

I have advocated for a while that ALPA set a minimum wage for all airlines....IE- No FO for any carrier represented by ALPA will fly for less than what the lowest paid full time TSA agent makes. It's a quantifiable number and most pax that I fly with are amazed (actually astounded might be a better word) when I tell them that the FO probably makes alot less then the super professional TSA agent that waved them through the security checkpoint.

I think it's becuse they aren't all that impressed with the TSA bubbas and procedures and they would like to think that they are in better hands when they are airborne.

Anyhow, my point is, that until we bring up the payscales at the lower part of the industry, you will not find your brass ring anytime soon at a major passenger carrier. I suspect that UAL will have NO PROBLEM filling thier vacancies with eager pilots willing to fly at thier current rates with no pension etc.

OK fire back now....but remember...economics is economics. Oh yeah, and the good news is you now have an extra five years to look for that ring.

Well said man. I just don't ever see it happening. As you stated, there will always be the younger kids out there that need that coveted turbine time and will do anything to get it, up to and including paying for a job. Management knows this and will exploit it as long as they can. As you said, economics.

 

[Marko Ramius]

I know I'm preaching to the peanut gallery here, but get real. The starting wages at most majors outside of WN, FX, and UPS stink-and UPS just got theirs raised. However the starting wages are in line with what they were when the world fell apart 6 years ago when everybody and their mama was making the move/sacrifice to go to the majors. Sucks that the starting wages didn't keep up with inflation, but the rates at the regionals haven't either. The whole, 'I can't afford or am unwilling to go to a major' theory is largely steeped in the notion that the regionals and even the LCC's are stable gigs. Only one new entrant has lasted 20 years post-deregulation, so the odds are that current group will end up on the scrap pile too. The regionals have always been an up and down gig, whose livelihoods are married to the very carriers that people come on here to denigrate. There is no way you could even make a 10 year career let alone a 30 year career at regional without looking at whipsaw's/downsizing, alter-ego's and other assorted falling outs. It wasn't that long ago that carriers like ACA & Mesaba were considered rocks in this business. Who would have thunk that Air Wis would be nowhere near Wisconsin and having to buy their business along with Chautaqua/Republic/Shuttle/Whoever else I missed? Comair, ASA, it goes on. SkyWest and Xjet seem up now, but they too will have their day. It's the nature of the business when you have someone else's name on the side of your jet and can't overcome the barriers to entry to do something substantial on your own.

The majors certainly aren't without their problems, but they've been here before wage wise and they've gotten money back because they have had greater leverage over time than the regionals. The future problem won't be dramatically different in that vein, except that the ceiling for everybody might get hurt by cabotage but you still know where the best/highest paying jobs will ultimately be in the airline side of this business. In the end these jobs will be snapped up by highly qualified people, some civilian types and some mil types who want out of the service, live near one of the bases, can see a brighter future, and who will bump their incomes with mil leave until the next contract rounds are up. And people here will still be complaining about United and the fill in the blank company of the day. Commence flame.

 

[stlflyguy]

Anyhow, my point is, that until we bring up the payscales at the lower part of the industry, you will not find your brass ring anytime soon at a major passenger carrier. I suspect that UAL will have NO PROBLEM filling thier vacancies with eager pilots willing to fly at thier current rates with no pension etc.

You're absolutely right. And ALPA will never embrace this idea. They'll just say "Well, we need to raise the bar from the top and watch it trickle down."

It's ashame we have to reach DOWN to the bar now.

stlflyguy

 

[skykid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by skykid
Great - keep the myth alive! Walk into their ORD ops today and you will see 95% white males, most have an ex-military look to them.


Is that the stick up the ass look?
__________________

Yes, that is a great way to describe it. If you are in this business long enough you can tell which branch of service within 30 seconds of meeting someone. For example, Coasties usually seem kind of effeminate.

 

[skykid]

Right on, Bubba! It's time we stick it to the man!
Oh wait, you ARE The Man! So I guess you're just sticking it to yourself.....HA, that's rich!

Crashpad, try to make some kind of connection with your response to the post. Another good idea is not to post when you are drunk or really tired.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I think a lot will stay where they are vs: UAL/NWA/USAir.

From another website:

...word around the DEN training center (called "TK" by UA peeps) is that there were only 600 apps after the first 3 days - they were expecting 3000+.
[/QUOTE]

cliff
LRD

 

[SoCentralRain]

Hi!

I think a lot will stay where they are vs: UAL/NWA/USAir.

From another website:

...word around the DEN training center (called "TK" by UA peeps) is that there were only 600 apps after the first 3 days - they were expecting 3000+.
[/QUOTE]

cliff
LRD

Hey Cliff,

HI!

Now, would you stop posting this on every thread that mentions UAL? You've made your point, Paul Revere.

Now, go outside and admire your car.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I didn't get it. I was in MCI about 6 months ago, and the CEO said to buy it. I was going to drive it home. Then, the co. got us a trip out of there, so we flew home. Then, on my next set of days off I was going to buy it, but my CEO changed her mind. And, my airport car actually was running well.

Now, we probably won't buy the Fit now. We'll hold out for a plug in hybrid, what with oil being over $100/barrel by Xmas (gas at $4???).

I will actually buy the Chevy Volt, which is due out in 2010, if that's the only plug-in available by then.

cliff
LRD

PS-I'm either going to apply first thing Mon at NWA, or shoot myself. I'm trying to decide which would be less painful!