it never ends for UAL

[General Lee]

Their business plan is to save up as much money as possible in Chap 11 and then emerge and buy another airline. That is a genius plan!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N8Dogg]

UAL and USAir have now become the models of how to take and take and take and take from employees. Now UAL is taking the poison to the next level with Air Wisconsin. Combine this way of doing business with BK protection and the companies that are paying their bills are forced to follow. The best of luck to the UAL/USAir pilots and to all pilots for that matter.

 

[stillflyn]

Is Ted starting to hurt Frontier in DEN? I heard that 10 Frontier Capt's were being sent back down to FO on April 1st.... Any truth to this????

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"Captalism is working and UAL and USAir will either live or die because of it."

If by capitalism you include free market economy....it is NOT working. These companies are on life support courtesy of the government via their arcane bankruptcy laws. They should have already died. How can you say it is working?

Before you get on another rant about people wanting to see the U's go away, I apply this opinion to ANY company in this country. If they can't get their crap together after 2 years of hiding in bankrupcy, they should be booted out and whatever happens, happens. They have done absolutely nothing, other than go to a judge to get their costs wiped out, to turn their company around and get it profitable. Opps, you're right, they started TED, that should work. After all, United shuttle was such a success......right??

How many more healthy businesses/entities/creditors are going to have to lose millions of dollars to subsidize a failing business?? Again, this applies to every company in this country. If they can't make it, then get out of the way and let the healthy companies do it. After all, isn't that what our supposed (emphasis on supposed) free market economy is all about?? As USMC319 stated, a few companies are being artificially kept in business by the government, at the expense of all the rest of them. How can you say it is working??

 

[xanderman]

Your right this industry would be much better off without Continental and Am West.

C'mon now! You know you were right there hammering AWA during their bankruptcy days howling "Their trashing the industry! Let them die already!!"

Funny how things work out...

 

[Stan]

Companies taking advantage of what the Laws of this country are is not Government Action.

Here is a list of Govt. Action at work in the airline industry for the last ten years:

Forcing the Legacy airlines to stop what they call predatory pricing while letting Jet Blue and SWA charge $29.00 and saying nothing

Taking slots from AMR and UAL at Chicago and giving them other airlines

Not letting UAL and USAir merge (smart move)

Airlines that received the ATSB loan:
AWA
Frontier
ATA
Aloha
UsAir

Airlines that applied that did not receive the ATSB loan:
UAL

Airlines in Chapter 11
UAL
UsAir (twice)
Aloha
Hawaiian
ATA

 

[N8Dogg]

The government needs to decide wether it is gonna let the free market decide the winners and losers or go back to airline regulation. No company can sustain the current fare wars for the long haul. The victims of the BK "life support" practice are the employees who get screwed time and time again. Let some die or let's get back to regulation!

 

[Benhuntn]

The odds of two poorly run companies...ie UAL and UsAir merging and becoming one sound company was about as likely as a pork barbeque picnic at a mosque. They were/are too doomed companies that have a history of failed management. They only winners are the CEO's and the losers are the companies that pay their bills on time and must try to stay in business while competeting with companies that don't!

 

[USMC319]

Is Ted starting to hurt Frontier in DEN? I heard that 10 Frontier Capt's were being sent back down to FO on April 1st.... Any truth to this????

Yes, there are 10 Captains being displaced. No, Ted is not the reason. Frontier's pilots ratified a new hourly pay system that allows the company about 18% more efficiency in scheduling, therefore, a reduced need for pilots. Frontier is getting leaner and meaner due to the unlevel playing field afforded to their main competitor (UAL) hiding in bankruptcy.

 

[Skank]

Companies taking advantage of what the Laws of this country are is not Government Action.

Here is a list of Govt. Action at work in the airline industry for the last ten years:

Forcing the Legacy airlines to stop what they call predatory pricing while letting Jet Blue and SWA charge $29.00 and saying nothing

Taking slots from AMR and UAL at Chicago and giving them other airlines

Not letting UAL and USAir merge (smart move)

Airlines that received the ATSB loan:
AWA
Frontier
ATA
Aloha
UsAir

Airlines that applied that did not receive the ATSB loan:
UAL

Airlines in Chapter 11
UAL
UsAir (twice)
Aloha
Hawaiian
ATA

Stan, just a few items here. What specific actions have been taken by the Government against any "Legacy" carrier for "predatory" pricing? None that I am aware of. Most people agree that predatory pricing is: selling goods or services below cost solely to damage your competition.

Jetblue and Southwest are making profits at those "predatory" prices you cite, and no "Legacy" carrier is. I agree that the industry is in a sorry state, but your statements are not credible.

 

[koko nw]

Quote:


Yes, there are 10 Captains being displaced. No, Ted is not the reason. Frontier's pilots ratified a new hourly pay system that allows the company about 18% more efficiency in scheduling, therefore, a reduced need for pilots. Frontier is getting leaner and meaner due to the unlevel playing field afforded to their main competitor (UAL) hiding in bankruptcy.

Question there USMC319. Help me out a little will ya with your logic.

Why do you need to be "leaner and meaner". If TED has not affected you to a point where it has Forced you to displace 10 captains?

Since as you put it, were your biggest competitor?

 

[Dodge]

I know the DC-9 boys and girls at NW are really glad that the pilots at United fly the 747 for what they get paid.

 

[koko nw]

I don't work for NWA, aka dodge said
"I know the DC-9 boys and girls at NW are really glad that the pilots at United fly the 747 for what they get paid"

Even if the rates were true, which there not, why would NWA Pilots be happy ?

Since I know atleast 5 guy's from my unit that actually work for NWA, who would refute you. I'll consider your post as just pure venom against either UAL or me, either way have a nice day..

Who do you work for again?

 

[canyonblue]

Who do you work for again?

Well his profile says Saab and BAe 146. Mesaba? And his avatar is a picture of 2 of the 4 engines on a 146. Mesaba? I don't know if "koko nw" has any reference to Northwest, if it does I would assume you could deduce his airline by either his profile or avatar, but then again I might just be a little more observant around the airfield.

 

[D-Bo]

Why do so many of you out there act like C11 bankruptcy is some phenomenon?

 

[USMC319]

Quote:

Question there USMC319. Help me out a little will ya with your logic.

Why do you need to be "leaner and meaner". If TED has not affected you to a point where it has Forced you to displace 10 captains?

Since as you put it, were your biggest competitor?

koko nw,

Don't you get it?" Its all about being "leaner and meaner" these days. I did not say Ted has no effect on the market. If you can comprehend my post, I said the primary reason for the displacements are due to the new hourly pay system, which significantly increases crew efficiency and the early retirement of the Boeing fleet. "Leaner and meaner" is merely the way of the future, the way of the future, the way of the future.........................

 

[koko nw]

USMC319, Thanks for clarifying. I must of been a little gun shy with the "UAL pile on" that seem's to be the trend here.

Trust me if you take a look at our last tenative, leaner and meaner I understand.

Best to you and your company.

Koko NW

 

[Mugs]

I know the DC-9 boys and girls at NW are really glad that the pilots at United fly the 747 for what they get paid.

Would you care to share with the group what you got paid as an F/O on the Saab, your Highness?

 

[Dodge]

Sure, Mugs, $17.51 per hour. Nice isn't it. That's because there is always someone else out there willing to do your job for just a little less. Look no further than Mesaba and NWA. The Mesaba MEC said that they had no problem flying the Avro for welfare wages and undercut the DC-9 pilots. After all, it meant growth for Mesaba. They had to do what the did to help themselves, who cares about the profession.

Same goes for United and US Airways. They did what they did to help/save themselves, who cares what it does to work rules and wages for the profession as a whole. That's my only point. I wish the very best for those pilots at those carriers but am getting a little tired of having to hear from the "Real Pilots" at majors that the regionals are watering down THEIR profession.

Sorry to offend.

 

[AA717driver]

We (pilots from major airlines) have done enough damage to our future contracts that we have no business 'dissing' regional pilots (or anyone else, for that matter).

"We've already determined what we are, now we're just haggling over the price." TC