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it never ends for UAL

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a320drivr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Posts
385
Judge cuts United's bill at ORD


2/17/2005
A bankruptcy judge dramatically cut the debt obligations of United Airlines at its Chicago O’Hare hub on Tuesday. The plan should save the carrier about $450 million annually.



The original debt evolved from bonds the city of Chicago sold United to fund construction projects specifically for the airline. The carrier has made no payments against the debt since filing for bankruptcy in December 2002. United hopes to reach similar agreements with airports in New York, Denver, San Francisco and Los Angeles.



Chicago’s Department of Aviation had no immediate comment on the ruling.

You have got to be kidding me!!!!!
 
Why is this government just refusing to allow capitalism to do its thing? They didn't show near this much mercy on PanAm, Eastern or Midway during the last slump.
 
I think most people understand that their slump started when airplanes were used to hit buildings in New York.
 
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Bull, it started before then and that is now the continued excuse. Check the SEC filings for more than a year piror to 9/11. Most of the big boys were bleeding more and more.
 
Really????????????

mullet said:
I think most people understand that their slump started when airplanes were used to hit buildings in New York.


Most people know that huh?

Yeah I'm pretty sure that 2 AA airplanes were flown into buildings that day too but American Airlines is still paying its bills. So lets cut the cr%p.
 
Reminds me of an old SNL skit with John Belushi as the "The Thing That Wouldn't Leave." John Belushi played a party guest who planted himself on the living room couch after all the other guests had left and refused to leave.

That could be UAL's new marketing motto: "The Thing That Wouldn't Leave."
 
quote:
"Why is this government just refusing to allow capitalism to do its thing?"


Because we don't have as "free" of a free-market economy as people would like to think. This Ual situation is proof-positive yet again.

These judges have waaayy too much control in the workings of supposed "free" markets.

As far as the slump starting when planes hit buildings.......bologna.
 
Geez, relax. If your goal is to watch UAL or US Air go belly up, I understand why these breaks upset you so much. Get over it guys.
 
Captalism is exacltly whats happening. UAL DID NOT Get the ATSB Loan Guarantee. Chapter 11 law is not unique to Airlines or UAL. Every airline in this country received money following Sep 11 to compensate for the shutdown of operatrions.

Now if you want to talk about the who got the ATSB loans, Us Air, Aloha, Frontier, ATA, America West. Maybe the Govt. should have let them fail and the industry would be better off.
 
The only reason JB is profitable is because they dont have to pay for airplanes, landing slots, airport gate fees, taxes and they get a sweetheart deal from their hometown politicians who provide cover for them in DC. Oh yeah...they dont have big pensions to fund and their pilots will work for dirt just to say they fly "big-jets" for a "major" airline. Those guys are the problem.....they are whoreing out this once proud profession.

Wait a minute.....did I say JB? My bad. I meant UAL.
 
"If your goal is to watch UAL or US Air go belly up, I understand why these breaks upset you so much. Get over it guys."


The"goal" is to stop watching these 2 dinosoars suck down the entire industry with them. Either get your xxxx together or get the xxxx out of the game.
 
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nitrogen said:
Most people know that huh?

Yeah I'm pretty sure that 2 AA airplanes were flown into buildings that day too but American Airlines is still paying its bills. So lets cut the cr%p.

Yes, AMR is the model to follow. All the animosty without the bankruptcy! Thank you AMR!

:rolleyes:
 
FLB717 said:
Bull, it started before then and that is now the continued excuse. Check the SEC filings for more than a year piror to 9/11. Most of the big boys were bleeding more and more.

A lot of talk of "letting capitalism do its thing". The "big boys were bleeding", etc, etc. Not much is ever said of the breaks the "little guys" have gotten in their evolvement. Your AVTAR hints that you may be AirTran. Any ideas where AirTran might be today without anti-trust/non-capitalistic laws. I'll tell you: gone. If the United and USAir deal had been allowed to go through, like the multi-billion communication deals, or the multi billion energy company deals, or the multi billion banking deals, than I submit that the liklihood of AirTran, Spirit, or JetBlue existing today is very remote. The airline industry legacy carriers have long had to suffer the penalties which seem to be non-existent in every other industry, as regulators have been led by aillogical fear that airfares might actually become equal to or more than they were in 1960. Hence, an unlevel playing field as compared to other industries.

So while you salivate over the demise of USAir, United, Delta, or Continental, you may want to think about it a bit.
 
Fall, winter, spring, another 3 years.....whenever!

Associated Press
United Now Targets Fall Bankruptcy Exit
Friday February 18, 7:37 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer
United Airlines Now Targets Fall Bankruptcy Exit; Financing Extended

CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines has pushed back its targeted exit from bankruptcy from this summer until fall, ensuring that its complex restructuring will now last close to three years -- twice as long as anticipated.
The latest delay was formally acknowledged Friday when a U.S. bankruptcy court judge approved an agreement between United and its lenders that extends its temporary financing by three months until Sept. 30.

The new loan from J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., Citigroup Inc., CIT Group Inc. and GE Capital eases some terms for UAL Corp.'s United, including reducing interest rates, waiving the January monthly earnings benchmark that it missed and lowering its minimum cash requirement to $600 million from $750 million.

The improved terms represent a vote of confidence for United even though it continues to be unprofitable after 26 months in bankruptcy, reporting a widened fourth-quarter loss of $664 million and a $1.6 billion deficit for 2004.

"The changes to the financing agreement reflect our belief that United has made significant progress to date in lowering its costs and executing on its business plan," said Bill Repko, managing director at J.P. Morgan Chase.

But United still is confronted with daunting challenges to emerge from Chapter 11, which it entered in December 2002 with expectations of an 18-month restructuring.

The Elk Grove Village, Ill.-based carrier has so far been unable to get two of its biggest unions to agree to long-term, lower-cost contracts and risks labor turmoil if it has its own terms imposed in court. The ground workers' contract expires on April 11 and the mechanics' on May 31.

A May 11 trial looms on its plan to eliminate traditional pensions unless consensual deals are worked out.

Additionally, retired pilots are fighting the company's plan to reduce pension payments by as much as 40 percent. Judge Eugene Wedoff told the two sides Friday that he would consider the case next month. He ordered United to continue paying the challenged benefits in the meantime, thwarting the airline's plan to cut back starting March 1.

Besides labor, United still is plagued by the same high fuel costs, low fares and crowded industry that have exacerbated its bankruptcy struggle.

Chief financial officer Jake Brace cited the ongoing pension deliberations as the reason for pushing back the bankruptcy exit target but cited the amended debtor-in-possession financing as an endorsement of United's "solid business plan."
 
"The changes to the financing agreement reflect our belief that United has made significant progress to date in lowering its costs and executing on its business plan," said Bill Repko, managing director at J.P. Morgan Chase.

What business plan? The plan that lead to the forth quarter loss of $664 mil? The plan that extends their CH 11 status for 2+ years? Who's yanking whose chain with this? The only "solid business plan" United has is to have its empoyees give up pay and benefits till they bleed from their rectums. We know the pilots will never say enough....perhaps the mechanics will put an end to the maddness.
 
Criticize UAL and USAir all you want about their lousy business plans. But at least be honest with yourselves about your opinion that the government is somehow interfering to keep them in business. What some on this board are actually advocating is for the Government to interfere to put them out of business. Captalism is working and UAL and USAir will either live or die because of it.
 
The bankruptcy laws must be changed. The last couple of years have demonstrated that need. While BK is a tool in our "capitalistic" system, extended stays in Chapter 11 by weak companies have only weakened the intire industry. The laws currently benefit the few at the expense of the many.
 
USMC319 said:
The bankruptcy laws must be changed. The last couple of years have demonstrated that need. While BK is a tool in our "capitalistic" system, extended stays in Chapter 11 by weak companies have only weakened the intire industry. The laws currently benefit the few at the expense of the many.

Your right this industry would be much better off without Continental and Am West.
 

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