It Has Begun!

[Sioux115]

The propaganda from the company which is what they claim is just being informative, posted the initial we're ready to negotiate letter to the IBT on onyourhorizon. I don't remember seeing any letters to unions of the flight attendants or mechs. posted when they were amending their agreements. Interesting. Its all about being in line with market pay of other regional carriers and lots of pretty graphs. They offered ways of reducing the pilot pay rates while not reducing our income on our W-2s with bonus programs(profit sharing). I don't understand how that would save money if we are making the same amount other than the fact that they can take away the profit sharing when they want. All that I know is that we are in no hurry to negotiate and are happy with what we have. And we also seem to be pretty profitable as it is now. So I don't know how they can back up their argument. It will be very ugly. OUT!

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

Yeah, really nice of them to call us out in front of the entire company. Nice little punk move to get things started. As far as the letter goes, Art is either dreaming, going senile, or both. Regardless, I pretty much laughed at what he had to say.

 

[low&slow]

They can have it out of my dead hands...

l&s

 

[rgnlwannabe]

I like how they compared our Q400 rate (FO's) to Skywests Brasilia120. I don't think that is comparing apples to apples. Also at they end they said something about working twice as hard for the same pay. Ummm...we already do 400 hours time away from base with pretty brutal schedules, how are we going to work more? Let the fun begin! :angryfire

 

[QXbuzzard]

This is going to be very fun. I find it interesting that he mentioned Alaska and their ways of saving money without having to file for bankruptcy protection. Ok first off, they still wouldn't have needed bankruptcy if the Alaska pilots didn't get paycuts. Another thing, he mentions that it gives the IBT and Horizon time to agreements to avoid life-changing pay reductions that have occured at other carriers. So Alaska taking their large paycut wasn't a life-changing pay reduction? We usually live a lifestyle our salaries allow. Taking a 34% paycut would change anyone's life no matter the salary.

 

[Icelandair]

What makes asking for paycuts even more absurd is the fact that they closed the bases where a person could even try to afford to live (BOI, GEG). All the real estate people in the SEA area are as greedy as the gas station owners and rip off the average person trying to buy a house.

 

[FlyingToIST]

I hope you guys can make through this. Your crews are doing a great job carrying me to work every week to LWS and you have a nicely paid salaries compared to other low lifers. One F/O that i talked to was explaining to me why Frontier chose you over Mesa. I hope you stand up to the management and get a raise instead of reduction of wages.

 

[wmudriver]

Go get get'em guys! Good luck with this crap. It seems like if you have a decent or better contract, the bullseye is on you. Heaven forbid we make a living. Will this be your second section 6 with IBT?

 

[embdrvr]

I like how they compared our Q400 rate (FO's) to Skywests Brasilia120. I don't think that is comparing apples to apples. :angryfire

Sure they are. After all they both have propellers and P&W engines if I remember the details correctly. They both make money for their respective carrier. Of course that 400 carries a lot more people and makes a lot more money. But hey, they're the same, right? Maybe your managment could convince skywest managment that the Brasilia drivers should be making at least as much as the Q-400 drivers.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Will this be your second section 6 with IBT?

This is the first time that the first contract is amendable, so I guess that makes it the first section 6 letter.

I'm more intrigued than nervous. It's nice being in the drivers' seat, so to speak. It would be in management's best interest (notice I didn't say company's best interest) to hurry things along, but from my perspective, things are working well at Horizon. Why mess with a good thing?

 

[Axel]

I think it's really cool that the esteemed general counsel actually served the section 6 notice for you all. He's getting better.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Is there any chance we can just outlast Art? How old is he?

 

[Buschpilot]

Is there any chance we can just outlast Art? How old is he?

Now that was funny.

You guys should pop over to the IBT board and inject some humor. Things sometimes get a little too serious over there, plus we like to see interest internally.

B

 

[ReverseSensing]

Now that was funny.

You guys should pop over to the IBT board and inject some humor. Things sometimes get a little too serious over there, plus we like to see interest internally.

B

It's less unseemly to anonymously wish for a company's Vice President and
General Counsel to die of old age than to do it under a real name.

 

[rgnlwannabe]

Sure they are. After all they both have propellers and P&W engines if I remember the details correctly. They both make money for their respective carrier. Of course that 400 carries a lot more people and makes a lot more money. But hey, they're the same, right? Maybe your managment could convince skywest managment that the Brasilia drivers should be making at least as much as the Q-400 drivers.

I don't think comparing a 74 seat airplane to a 30 seat? airplane is fair. It has twice the revenue potential then the Q200. The Brasalia rate should stack up against the Q200, and that is all, IHMO. And in fact, since it has four more seats, has roughly the same block times as the RJ, and is actually larger then the RJ, the rates should be the same for the RJ and Q400.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

I don't think comparing a 74 seat airplane to a 30 seat? airplane is fair. It has twice the revenue potential then the Q200. The Brasalia rate should stack up against the Q200, and that is all, IHMO. And in fact, since it has four more seats, has roughly the same block times as the RJ, and is actually larger then the RJ, the rates should be the same for the RJ and Q400.

Ahhh but you need an extra week of training to fly the RJ

 

[rgnlwannabe]

deleted

 

[ReverseSensing]

no need for my comments now.

 

[rgnlwannabe]

you're right, that was a little harsh. I have never met someone from the jet I didnt like.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

you're right, that was a little harsh. I have never met someone from the jet I didnt like.

I was just joking

 

[ReverseSensing]

I was just joking

We kind of screwed things up by deleting our posts. Wannabe wasn't referring to your comments as being too harsh, he was referring to his own.

 

[tomdav]

pay cuts

Remember to vote for paycuts. Without them we cant expand and open new bases in such sunny spots like FAT, HOU, and ....oh whats the point. I think this was the same line they gave us about DEN. Take a paycut or we cant go to Denver and hose all you senior folks out of a line in your base.

Tom Davies

 

[XJohXJ]

They offered ways of reducing the pilot pay rates while not reducing our income on our W-2s with bonus programs(profit sharing). I don't understand how that would save money if we are making the same amount other than the fact that they can take away the profit sharing when they want.

-----

Companies never offer so called "profit sharing" as a way to increase pay. It is ONLY used to cut pay: "Sorry, we didn't meet the criteria for this quarter, so to maintain the programs integrity, we will not be paying bonuses"

Good luck guys. Welcome to Hell.

 

[embdrvr]

I don't think comparing a 74 seat airplane to a 30 seat? airplane is fair. It has twice the revenue potential then the Q200. The Brasalia rate should stack up against the Q200, and that is all, IHMO. And in fact, since it has four more seats, has roughly the same block times as the RJ, and is actually larger then the RJ, the rates should be the same for the RJ and Q400.

It was supposed to be a joke. Guess you didn't get it.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

I can't believe those morons in management. I see that they are trying to pit one group against the other. Why else would they post the pilot pay charts for the whole company to see.

They are saying "Look at how much these fat pilots are making, if we could get them to take a pay cut you would get more in OPR, profit share." So on and on and on.

 

[tico]

Tell them to shove it and take a baseball bat to any one that crosses the line...It is time to bring back good old fashion violence in unionism....You can see what the results of working together gets you over here at Alaska....









"We believe a viable option is to consider additional compensation that is contingent on the Company’s success, coupled with an aligning of pay to market rates. Our compensation philosophy recognizes that employees should have an opportunity to share in the financial success of the Company. For many years, Horizon has offered upside pay potential in the form of profit sharing. More recently, the program called Operational Performance Rewards (OPR) has added further upside pay potential for all employees. "

Whatever approach we mutually agree to take, it’s clear that in order for Horizon to prosper and grow in the years to come, and thus continue to provide a livelihood for our pilots and other employees, we must provide value to Alaska Air Group as a whole and be competitive with the other regional carriers with whom we compete – both directly on routes we fly, and for codeshare business. Tied into that is our compensation philosophy for all employee groups: “Compensation levels should be competitive with levels that would be paid by other regional carriers if they operated in our relevant marketplaces.” With our combined brainpower, I’m confident we can find the best way to accomplish this. Rather than prepare a list of suggested language changes for our first meeting, we intend to share with you a more comprehensive statement of our interests, so we can engage in a discussion of the framework for a collaborative negotiation process. For instance, if we both agree to explore productivity improvements as an offset to higherthan-market wages, one of the challenges will be quantifying the economic benefit of any particular change. We will be contacting you to arrange a mutually agreeable time and place for our initial meeting, so we can begin our talks. We look forward to our teams beginning to work on solutions..


Sincerely,

Arthur E. Thomas Vice President General Counsel and Secretary
c:
Captain Larry Freer, Chairman, IBT EXCO, Horizon Air
Mr. Gene Hahn, Vice President, Flight Operations, Horizon Air
Mr. Jeff Pinneo, CEO and President, Horizon Air

 

[ReverseSensing]

"We believe a viable option is to consider additional compensation that is contingent on the Company’s success, coupled with an aligning of pay to market rates. Our compensation philosophy recognizes that employees should have an opportunity to share in the financial success of the Company. For many years, Horizon has offered upside pay potential in the form of profit sharing. More recently, the program called Operational Performance Rewards (OPR) has added further upside pay potential for all employees. "

Whatever approach we mutually agree to take, it’s clear that in order for Horizon to prosper and grow in the years to come, and thus continue to provide a livelihood for our pilots and other employees, we must provide value to Alaska Air Group as a whole and be competitive with the other regional carriers with whom we compete – both directly on routes we fly, and for codeshare business. Tied into that is our compensation philosophy for all employee groups: “Compensation levels should be competitive with levels that would be paid by other regional carriers if they operated in our relevant marketplaces.” With our combined brainpower, I’m confident we can find the best way to accomplish this. Rather than prepare a list of suggested language changes for our first meeting, we intend to share with you a more comprehensive statement of our interests, so we can engage in a discussion of the framework for a collaborative negotiation process. For instance, if we both agree to explore productivity improvements as an offset to higherthan-market wages, one of the challenges will be quantifying the economic benefit of any particular change. We will be contacting you to arrange a mutually agreeable time and place for our initial meeting, so we can begin our talks. We look forward to our teams beginning to work on solutions..


Sincerely,

Arthur E. Thomas Vice President General Counsel and Secretary

Oh, sorry Art, were you saying something? I sort of stopped listening after the first paragraph:

The purpose of this letter is to notify you that -- in accordance with Section 32, Duration, of the Agreement between Horizon Air Industries, Inc. (the Company) and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Covering Pilots, in effect until Sept. 13, 2006 (the Agreement) -- the Company intends to propose certain changes to the Agreement in accordance with Section 6, Title I, of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

 

[QCappy]

I really want a large pay cut with an incentive bonus if the company does well. I mean, if I agree to a $10,000 pay cut then maybe my profit sharing check will double next year to $1,000....uhhhh......hmmmmm.....plus 2.....carry the four......:beer: :beer: :beer: ......We've made money the last three years.....never mind.:nuts: