It has almost been 5 months.

[Skywest Pylot]

It has now almost been 5 months.

Newpilot2b said,

Word is that if the ALPA is voted down tomorrow - there is a huge new contract waiting. We shall see.

Skynation said,

I heard that too.

1 hour later in the thread he said,

you know as well!!

actually, I don't believe this rumor.

Must have stopped drinking the company cool aid for an hour.


Utahpilot said,

I heard that same thing. what I was told is that the airline that came to us with the deal said it'll depend on the outcome of the drive, not Jerry passing on it.

BigLebowski said,

I've heard this too. Delta is afraid to disperse more flying to us right now based on this union vote because of the Comair strike. Apparently they feel that if we vote ALPA in...with their being two seniority lists it could cause a slow down for them and they want nothing of it.

SkyW may not be perfect, but the grass is sure green here. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

This is not a union debate. That horse is dead. I think I'm gonna go get a bowl of popcorn and watch what the SkyWest pilots do now that their precious quick upgrade has disappeared.

 

[Skaff]

Newpilot2b said, Skynation said, 1 hour later in the thread he said, Must have stopped drinking the company cool aid for an hour.


Utahpilot said, BigLebowski said,
This is not a union debate. That horse is dead. I think I'm gonna go get a bowl of popcorn and watch what the SkyWest pilots do now that their precious quick upgrade has disappeared.

Wow, you really made nothing out of nothing here. On flightinfo, there is a lot of speculation. Don't see anything different with these posts. Go choke on your popcorn.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Wow, you really made nothing out of nothing here. On flightinfo, there is a lot of speculation. Don't see anything different with these posts. Go choke on your popcorn.

Question: Where is the BIG anouncement? :0

 

[outtahere]

Some (69%) Skywest pilots will believe anything. They even believe that having an overide for larger airframes is the same as getting paid more to fly it. It has to be in the water out there in Utah.

 

[Bako Cap]

I don't believe that a stupid rumor killed the ALPA vote. I do believe that the failure was due to ALPA not kicking a$s at the regional level. I know that they are needed at most regionals and that they have provided good services to them, but no kicking a$s. ALPA and the regional seemed to have a relationship that is just going through the motions (ie. like parents who stay together just for the kids). ALPA does not show great intrest in the regionals and that was reflected in the outcome of the vote. Too bad, I do believe that ALPA/union would work here, but I am in the miniority.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I don't believe that a stupid rumor killed the ALPA vote. I do believe that the failure was due to ALPA not kicking a$s at the regional level. I know that they are needed at most regionals and that they have provided good services to them, but no kicking a$s. ALPA and the regional seemed to have a relationship that is just going through the motions (ie. like parents who stay together just for the kids). ALPA does not show great intrest in the regionals and that was reflected in the outcome of the vote. Too bad, I do believe that ALPA/union would work here, but I am in the miniority.

Agreed. IMO ALPA is making a Huge mistake by not addressing the regional situation. If we want to keep the ship from sinking we've got to address the holes in the bottom of the freaking boat! This is gonna come back and bite us in the @ss, AGAIN.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Give it time guys. Remember, it took us 5 years. :0

 

[Nevets]

ALPA is trying to do things right by the "regionals." There was a joint MEC meeting of "Fee for Departure" carriers in STL a few weeks ago. There were some pretty big ideas that are in the works that came out of that meeting that will directly benefit regionals. Ask your MEC chairman about it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA is trying to do things right by the "regionals." There was a joint MEC meeting of "Fee for Departure" carriers in STL a few weeks ago. There were some pretty big ideas that are in the works that came out of that meeting that will directly benefit regionals. Ask your MEC chairman about it.

One of our Captain reps. said it was more of the same....nothing much new.....

The players were the same....Wychor, Lawson, and Tennon.....The agenda looked like more of the same to....

Nothing to see here folks....keep it moving......

 

[joe_pilot]

Some (69%) Skywest pilots will believe anything. They even believe that having an overide for larger airframes is the same as getting paid more to fly it. It has to be in the water out there in Utah.

65%, actually.

 

[Nevets]

One of our Captain reps. said it was more of the same....nothing much new.....

The players were the same....Wychor, Lawson, and Tennon.....The agenda looked like more of the same to....

Nothing to see here folks....keep it moving......

What was proposed is only being done by the Canadian regionals. So I don't know how he could have said it was more of the same? I think he either wasn't paying attention, he is short changing you, or he has other intentions.

Did he even mention that Prater and Rice where there as well along with other national committee members and others who are pilots from the majors?

 

[PCL_128]

One of our Captain reps. said it was more of the same....nothing much new.....

The players were the same....Wychor, Lawson, and Tennon.....The agenda looked like more of the same to....

Nothing to see here folks....keep it moving......

Lawson? What position does he hold now?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

65%, actually.

Correct. Remember, those 65% may not have gotten that "rumored" pay raise, but they did have an aircraft dedicated to them.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2086976242_4f9bd4ca63_o.jpg

(Sorry, I know it's a repost, but this one never goes out of style with the "No" voters.)

 

[JoeMerchant]

Lawson? What position does he hold now?

I would like to know that too...What about Wychor and Tennen?

Here is the agenda from this meeting that Nevets is talking about.....

https://crewroom.alpa.org/asa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=42333

 

[JoeMerchant]

What was proposed is only being done by the Canadian regionals. So I don't know how he could have said it was more of the same? I think he either wasn't paying attention, he is short changing you, or he has other intentions.

Did he even mention that Prater and Rice where there as well along with other national committee members and others who are pilots from the majors?

Wow....You mean Prater and Rice were there....Well that makes all the difference in the world....

The agends looks very similar to one I attendend some 6 years ago in Herndon....I still have the nice fancy binder on the bookshelf....

More of the same.....

https://crewroom.alpa.org/asa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=42333

 

[PCL_128]

I would like to know that too...What about Wychor and Tennen?

I don't know about Tennen, but Captain Wychor has been working for National for quite a while. He's mostly dealing with organizing drives, but does other work also.

 

[Nevets]

Wow....You mean Prater and Rice were there....Well that makes all the difference in the world....

The agends looks very similar to one I attendend some 6 years ago in Herndon....I still have the nice fancy binder on the bookshelf....

More of the same.....

https://crewroom.alpa.org/asa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=42333

I'm just saying that it wasn't just regional guys that are behind this. Those were just of the most prominent major guys that were there. Someone said that ALPA just looks out for the majors.

We are talking about having a system similar if not the same to the Canadian guys. That has not been done before (in the same fashion) at US regionals - horizontal pilot migration with seniority.

 

[theo]

So the idea is to pump up the negotiating airlines to get the best contract you can...whats new here? Horizontal pilot migration? Yeah right...pilots will never agree on "fair ways to integrate seniority lists" just look at DL and NW or US Airways. This is just a pipe dream to keep regional pilots fired up to fight the good fight against management. Nothing more will come of this. Propaganda at its most optimistic!!

 

[Nevets]

So the idea is to pump up the negotiating airlines to get the best contract you can...whats new here? Horizontal pilot migration? Yeah right...pilots will never agree on "fair ways to integrate seniority lists" just look at DL and NW or US Airways. This is just a pipe dream to keep regional pilots fired up to fight the good fight against management. Nothing more will come of this. Propaganda at its most optimistic!!

This is not something that has never been done. Its not a "pipe dream." This is something that has already been done by the Canadian regionals and a couple of bilateral agreements (PCL/MSA & ASA/SKW). There is already another possible bilateral agreement in the works. Just because it wont be easy, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

 

[Bako Cap]

What bilateral agreement does ASA/SKW have?

 

[Whydoitry]

How does the Canadian system work and how would it work here?

 

[JoeMerchant]

What bilateral agreement does ASA/SKW have?

In any 12 month period, if 5 or more aircraft are transferred in either direction....the company has to take the pilots with the aircraft.....It works in both directions....

 

[Bako Cap]

No kidding, thanks guys. Now if we just merged the seniority lists, then this would be a moot point.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No kidding, thanks guys. Now if we just merged the seniority lists, then this would be a moot point.

That should be priority number 1......

 

[bmpilot2003]

Wow, you really made nothing out of nothing here. On flightinfo, there is a lot of speculation. Don't see anything different with these posts. Go choke on your popcorn.

Speculation? The southwest rumor was talked about as though it was FACT. From Sim instuctors to Fo's who thought they would upgrade in 6 months. You and SkyNADS are the only one choking on popcorn now!

 

[Nevets]

How does the Canadian system work and how would it work here?

The idea is to mitigate pilot recycling (pilots having to start of the bottom of another seniority list). If aircraft are transfered, the pilots go with the aircraft as well with their seniority. The Canadians take it a bit further if I understand it correctly. They are all allowed to bid on any vacancy across companies. The pilots at their respective airline have dibs but if not enough bid the vacancies, the pilots of the other airline can be awarded that vacancy. They come over with their seniority.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That should be priority number 1......

Yet you have no idea how to make it so.... the question is, despite your lack of ability do you hold ALPA accountable for not doing what you can't do?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yet you have no idea how to make it so.... the question is, despite your lack of ability do you hold ALPA accountable for not doing what you can't do?

Everything is negotiatable....including a single list at Skywest Inc......It will cost in other areas, but long term it will pay off IMO....Depends if we are going to look long term or short term.....Up until now, we pilots have tended to look short term.....maybe people are starting to realize that isn't working...

The cross-bidding scenario's that Nevets are describing are the way to get this ball rolling....This idea was first floated by Dan Ford at the 1995 ALPA Scope Committee.....

Better late than never.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The idea is to mitigate pilot recycling (pilots having to start of the bottom of another seniority list). If aircraft are transfered, the pilots go with the aircraft as well with their seniority. The Canadians take it a bit further if I understand it correctly. They are all allowed to bid on any vacancy across companies. The pilots at their respective airline have dibs but if not enough bid the vacancies, the pilots of the other airline can be awarded that vacancy. They come over with their seniority.

This is exactly what we need to do.....Now will we actually do it....That is the question....

Cross-bidding proposals were first floated at the 1995 ALPA Scope Committee by Dan Ford....13 years ago now.....Hopefully we have learned from our mistakes and are moving forward.....

 

[Nevets]

This is exactly what we need to do.....Now will we actually do it....That is the question....

Cross-bidding proposals were first floated at the 1995 ALPA Scope Committee by Dan Ford....13 years ago now.....Hopefully we have learned from our mistakes and are moving forward.....

Cross-bidding is one step farther than what is being attempted now. Right now, the plan is to bring pilots with their seniority when aircraft are transferred across corporate lines. Its a baby step but at least its a start in the right direction.

There is already plans for a possible bilateral agreement going on right now. So I know ALPA is trying to do it.