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Israelification of airports?

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FWIW, it seems to me Our Constitution protects us from the very behavior Israel has had to resort to.

Not sure if you're making a simple observation, defending our Constitution, or excusing the Israeli MO (or all of the above or something else entirely...), but as you said, Israel's hand was forced in how they run their state. Thing is, their state was carved out of a land in relatively modern times where centuries of ideological difference among the inhabitants made it such that their current way of life isn't (or shouldn't be...) terribly surprising to anyone there. We, on the other hand, have a mere two centuries of Constitutionally-protected freedom, liberty, etc. Well, the third world has caught up with us using our own technologies, and their ideologies which do not jive with ours. Non-extremes have to adapt to the extremes to survive. So we need to adapt.
I don't think that our forefathers foresaw what we're living with today. But they did have the foresight to make our Constitution amendable.
 
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Last time I went through Tel Aviv (in 2003) it took me a heck of a lot longer than 25 minutes. My bags were completely unpacked and every thing I'd purchased were separately put through the x-ray machine. I was interrogated for five full minutes about where I'd traveled. All this -- and I wasn't even a selectee for special screening. I was just a typical American Jewish tourist.

Not sure why, but something you said or some way you behaved or some stamp in your passport or something they found in their intel gathering before you arrived at the airport triggered their response. Certainly the vast majority of passengers don't have their bags unpacked, so there was some reason why they checked you more carefully.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong; I'm sure you didn't. But maybe you told them you were coming from an area they has security concerns about. Maybe you looked down and to the left instead of up and to the right when they asked you a question you had to think about. Who knows.

The vast majority of the time, I've spent less than 20-minutes from airport entrance in TLV to passing through the security line, not including the hour I have to wait with the Non-Revs for my name to be called (that is, 20-minutes of all security combined, including time waiting standing in lines, but not including the time waiting at the check-in counter while they release the standbys).


To address other people's comments--
  • I'd venture to guess that the majority of the screeners to NOT have a college education yet. Many of the initial layer of security are doing their mandatory public service in lieu of active military service, and that is done pre-college. Many of the security specialists asking you questions are right out of the army (often military intel officers) and have not gone to college yet. Don't confuse army officers with college graduates; most of their officers go to university AFTER their military service.
  • I'm not sure how Israel's security of lifestyle in general would be a violation of our (US) constitutional freedoms. I'm not saying it is or isn't... I'd need to think about specific details, I guess. Having spent a fair amount of time in Israel and comparing lifestyles to the US (and to Europe), I'd have to say that I feel that I have as much freedom overall there as I do here; more in some areas, less in others, so it averages out to be about equal. Walking into a mall or restaurant I have to pause while they ask to look in large bags or hand-wand people, but I've never been asked for ID or hassled in any way. They certainly aren't afraid of good guys with guns; more than once when asked if I was armed I answered yes and was waved right through. Passing the security checkpoints as I drive out of the territories or into the airport property is simply a matter of rolling down the window and saying hello as I roll past... I have never even had to come to a complete stop or show any sort of ID. Compare that with the US where security checkpoints always involve coming to a complete stop, answering questions, showing ID which often gets entered into a computer... hell, even entering the FedEx parking lot for a jumpseat involves checking for my name on a pre-printed checklist at the guard shack, but I've attended events on Israeli military bases by simply showing my invitation (no ID). So, have I given up constitutional freedoms there that I have here? I'm not so sure. I know I sure "feel" more violated here than there, but I think that's because I feel that their security there serves a purpose while ours here is an ineffective power trip.
 
I just did a trip to LLBG. There screening is second to none. Fact is that most of it is totally transparent to the passenger. If you know what you are looking for then yes, you see it. The way that the airport is designed and coodons off each step of the process is evident.

It took us 20 minutes to go from the van to the line at the McDonald's. That was with an escort. For the customers it takes about 40 mins to an hour and a half depending on the lines.

We need to stop saying why we can't and start asking how we can.
 
I just did a trip to LLBG. There screening is second to none. Fact is that most of it is totally transparent to the passenger.

Agreed. If you travel to UK, especially the riding the tube (subway), you'll find yourself always covered by CCTV. A lot can be done behind the scene, and can be of huge significance to deterring any possible incidents. I think it is one of the "cheapest" steps we can take right away to increase our vigilance level. We need more behavior profiling, right away. The random cavity search that TSA is handing out is fine and all, but for the most part, it's just wasting time. It's almost like playing poker with a magic 8 ball in your hand telling you what to do next.
 
Agreed. If you travel to UK, especially the riding the tube (subway), you'll find yourself always covered by CCTV. A lot can be done behind the scene, and can be of huge significance to deterring any possible incidents. I think it is one of the "cheapest" steps we can take right away to increase our vigilance level. We need more behavior profiling, right away. The random cavity search that TSA is handing out is fine and all, but for the most part, it's just wasting time. It's almost like playing poker with a magic 8 ball in your hand telling you what to do next.

I disagree about the CCTV usage in the UK. Yes, there are cameras everywhere, but it doesn't mean someone is watching. As a matter of fact, the additional cameras that were installed by the Labour government didn't do anything in reducing crime.

When I worked contract in the UK, I took the train back from the airport. In it were a couple of drunk lads (guys) who had picked someone to fight with. Things turned ugly by screaming and pushing each others around a little bit. I didn't do anything since I was in uniform and those a**holes were just looking to fight someone. When I got out of the train I asked the train conductor if someone had seem the fight and notified police. He denied, and said that the cameras record in a 30 or 45 minute loop. So, CCTV use has nothing to do with crime prevention, only aids in solving it. It's like the TSA - just for show!
 
Thx Dornier for the info, i didn't know they're for show as well. How sad! I thought i read some kind of statistics of how they were able to deter crime in their subway system. I guess they're just as red tape as we are over there.
 
How many flights a day go in and out of Tel Aviv everyday? Would it be practicle to do what they do in Israel at JKK, EWR or ORD? How much more in taxes would we have to pay to have college educated screeners with career benefits at our airports?

Seems to me that this would never work in a divided country such as ours. Both the ACLU and the teabagers would have have huge problem with this.
 
I just did a trip to LLBG. There screening is second to none. Fact is that most of it is totally transparent to the passenger. If you know what you are looking for then yes, you see it. The way that the airport is designed and coodons off each step of the process is evident.

It took us 20 minutes to go from the van to the line at the McDonald's. That was with an escort. For the customers it takes about 40 mins to an hour and a half depending on the lines.

We need to stop saying why we can't and start asking how we can.

The answer is COMPLETELY SCRAPPING the bureaucracies that handed us the 9/11 and knicker-bomber fiascoes and rebuilding from the ground up.

However, short of a nuclear exchange, this simply isn't going to happen. The Bureaucracy, while staffed from stem to stern with abolutely wonderful people, is an Augean Stable of non-accountability and incompetence.
 
I remember a few years ago when I was going thru Israeli security with my baby boy. The wife and I were just about to wake him up, take him out of the stroller, fold it up, and squeeze it thru the xray machine, when the Israeli security lady said, "what are you doing? You're going to wake up the baby!!" she told us to keep the baby in the stroller and walk right on thru the xray machine while it beeped off and she didn't care one bit.

Is that profiling? Yes! and I'm all for it.

I go to Israel every year and the security line is shorter and with less hassle than the US. Many people mention that Tel Aviv is a small airport and the US couldnt handle their methods in EWR or ATL, but I must disagree. TLV is small, but actually pretty busy during their midnight pushes, with thousands of passengers going thru one small entrance - as busy as any US airport!

The interviewers/screeners aren't psychology majors with PhDs. They're actually kids, usually about 22 years old. I know there a lot of morons in the TSA, but I'm sure they could handle the job of staring at someone's eyes while asking them half a dozen questions. Real terrorists are not cool and calm before they attack, they aren't trained warriors, they're usually pretty dumb themselves, and will easily reveal their nervousness when asked a few simple questions.

Someone said earlier that Israel doesn't have the ACLU and organizations like that so they have free will to be as nasty as they want to be. That's not true. Israel is a democracy with the same rights that Americans cherish. Israelis just understand that political correctness kills innocent lives.
 
Israelis just understand that political correctness kills innocent lives.

Yep, they have their own social problems just like ours. But seems like our society would rather take our securities for granted. So sad... Let's see if this administration can do anything to booster aviation security, and restore public confidence.
 
Not what one would expect to read:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141730.html

Haaretz probe: Israel airport security often carried out by untrained employees

By Zohar Blumenkrantz

As airports the world over tighten their security following the attempted Christmas bombing on a Northwest Airlines plane, the final security check at Ben-Gurion International Airport is being carried out by employees who have not been trained for the job, Haaretz has learned.

This month, the airport has been lacking professional security officers, because the new firm responsible for examining passengers and their carry-on luggage does not have enough staff.

The Airports Authority has been using its own staff to compensate for the lack of manpower, but some of these people did not receive the training to carry out the security checks necessary, security officers told Haaretz.
This is the last, most important security check, directly prior to embarkation. At this point, passengers have passed the first security interview and received a boarding pass, and said good-bye to anyone who is not traveling.

Here, passengers pass through a metal detector, and their carry-on luggage is scanned.

Until now, the check was carried out by L.M., a private firm, but in January, the role passed to another firm, Hatama.

Hatama, which won the Airports Authority tender, pays lower wages, and as a result is having trouble finding experienced, trained employees.

Many employees of L.M. refused to work for Hatama for lower pay. The Airports Authority staff members filling in the gaps generally work interviewing passengers and checking luggage. Only a few are trained to handle the X-ray machines used to scan carry-on bags.

The Airports Authority is responsible for teaching the private firms' staff how to use the X-ray machines. However, in at least one incident last week, untrained staff members were asked to operate the machines.

According to a security officer who spoke on condition of anonymity, the reinforcement employees received a short overview of the machine, which they then proceeded to operate.

"Special training is required to operate the X-ray machine," the officer told Haaretz. "But the rushed training that we underwent last week was a joke. I'm afraid I will be asked to do a job I do not know how to do, and that I will be unable to identify suspicious objects in passengers' hand luggage."

Other security officers complained that they are overworked because they have to make up for the lack of staff.

In response the Airports Authority said that passengers' security is "a primary concern," and that "all security checks are carried out by professional and trained personnel, with no exceptions."
 
They also don't have to deal with idiots at the ACLU
Yeah, the very people who defend the constitution are idiots. How about you think, before drinking and posting?
PBR
 

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