Isn't BKclock running out for Indy??

[Grassstrippilot]

When is the date that the BK rules change? I thought that it was the 17th. Is Indy going to file? I half expected to see something today.

 

[FlyingDawg]

I bet they file this weekend since many BK lawfirms are setup to do so electronically.

 

[PoorJetDriver]

In another blow for financially struggling Independence Air, Moody's Investors Service has downgraded its rating on some of parent company FLYi's debt.

The ratings service cut to "negative" its outlook on about $58 million in FLYi debt because of concerns about the collateral the company has pledged to back it up. Moody's says the regional jets used as collateral, specifically CRJ-200-ER and BAE Systems J-41 turboprops, are losing their value and weakening recovery prospects for the debt holders.
"Additionally, should the regional subsidiaries of Delta and Northwest dispose of significant numbers of their CRJ-200 -ER fleet, a relatively large percent of the total fleet of this aircraft type would enter the market simultaneously putting further pressure on aircraft values," Moody's says in its downgrade.
Independence Air (NASDAQ: FLYI) negotiated early lease terminations for a number of its turboprop jets earlier this year, but the ones pledged as collateral for the debt downgraded by Moody's were not among them.
Independence Air has significantly reduced its flight schedule and is cutting hundreds of jobs, mostly at its Dulles hub, as it tries to fend off a bankruptcy filing. The company lost $98.5 million in the second quarter. It will report third-quarter results Oct. 27.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Moody's says in its downgrade.
Independence Air (NASDAQ: FLYI) negotiated early lease terminations for a number of its turboprop jets earlier this year.

:erm: Turboprop jets?

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Tyro]

Oh yes. Why, turboprop jets. Burn a lot of gas. -And they're slow.

 

[dojetdriver]

Come on Etoper/Slapnutz, lets hear it. Stop worrying about your retirement and start bashing.

 

[rightrudder]

They have until 1159pm sunday to file

 

[zkmayo]

I dont think they will file bc they have no ability to do DIP financing. Only hope is a "white knight" or equity investment. Its all or nothing.

Good luck to all my friends there.

 

[Propblast]

You can't file bankruptcy if you don't have a plan for exit financing. Filing at this point probably would have been a good sign (better than the alternative anyway).

-PB

 

[skid]

Oh yes. Why, turboprop jets. Burn a lot of gas. -And they're slow.

Kind of sounds like the Dornier 328 Jet. Burns gas but not very fast, and holds very few pax.

 

[AZ Typed]

Kind of sounds like the Dornier 328 Jet. Burns gas but not very fast, and holds very few pax.

Yeah - but I gaurantee it's funner to fly than any stupid "airliner." Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to find a tighter knit group of pilots from that bird.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah - but I gaurantee it's funner to fly than any stupid "airliner." Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to find a tighter knit group of pilots from that bird.

When you say tight????

 

[Grassstrippilot]

Yeah - but I gaurantee it's funner to fly than any stupid "airliner." Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to find a tighter knit group of pilots from that bird.

A very true statement. I'm glad to have been a part of it and do miss it. I can't believe it has been almost a year since we parked them.

As for Indy's BK filing, the deadline has come and gone. I agree with the posts above. I'm afraid that only leaves the hope for a "white knight" or Chapter 7. What are you guys at Indy hearing? (probably nothing) So a better question would be, what kind of vib are you getting?

Best of luck. I was hoping that there would be something worth considering coming back to when my voluntary furlough runs up in April.

 

[blueridge71]

The DoJet at Cincy was probably the high point of my career. The 700 is a good airplane, but ASA can't hold a candle to ACA, even before the Independence Day.

The clock for filing under the old rules has indeed run out. If they could have done so, filing and dropping the RJs probably would have been a smart move. I guess that pesky exit financing wouldn't allow that route though.

 

[xjavro85]

Oh yes. Why, turboprop jets. Burn a lot of gas. -And they're slow.

Are you talking about AVROS?

 

[jetfo]

Flyi Bk

The clock for filing under the old rules has indeed run out. If they could have done so, filing and dropping the RJs probably would have been a smart move. I guess that pesky exit financing wouldn't allow that route though.[/quote]

I think you're probably right. Not filing ch 11 by now is not a good sign. No exit financing and no options.

They are in no hurry if they are going to go for ch 7 liquidation. The change in the rules won't affect them.

Perhaps they are working on their golden parachutes.

 

[House_X]

The DoJet at Cincy was probably the high point of my career. The 700 is a good airplane, but ASA can't hold a candle to ACA, even before the Independence Day.

The clock for filing under the old rules has indeed run out. If they could have done so, filing and dropping the RJs probably would have been a smart move. I guess that pesky exit financing wouldn't allow that route though.

How depressing...D328 jet in CVG being the highlight of a career. The overnights were horrible (TOL, GRR, EVV, ERI...need I say more?) and the plane was about as reliable as a $3 bill. Also, the crews flying Dornier were being treated like red headed step children by ACA management. When I look at the airline industry TODAY...those were indeed the "good ole days"...how sad is THAT!!! I remember the BOS and LGA lines...high block...those were good trips!!!

 

[AZ Typed]

How depressing...D328 jet in CVG being the highlight of a career. The overnights were horrible (TOL, GRR, EVV, ERI...need I say more?) and the plane was about as reliable as a $3 bill. Also, the crews flying Dornier were being treated like red headed step children by ACA management. When I look at the airline industry TODAY...those were indeed the "good ole days"...how sad is THAT!!! I remember the BOS and LGA lines...high block...those were good trips!!!

House_X: There's so much more that made CVG pimp than the damn overnights & broken ships, trips and block. It was the people - duh. The 328 was the new "J32" of the fleet (as you put it "red headed step child") and that made it all the more fun. Yes...there were some big TOOLS in the airplane in both seats. But they were far and few between compared to the Space Shuttle ROBOTS that we were all forced to work with in HELL, err I mean IAD. Of course, the Space Shuttle was probably the highlight of your carerr, eh.

 

[Patriot328]

House_X: There's so much more that made CVG pimp than the dang overnights & broken ships, trips and block. It was the people - duh. The 328 was the new "J32" of the fleet (as you put it "red headed step child") and that made it all the more fun. Yes...there were some big TOOLS in the airplane in both seats. But they were far and few between compared to the Space Shuttle ROBOTS that we were all forced to work with in HELL, err I mean IAD. Of course, the Space Shuttle was probably the highlight of your carerr, eh.

AMEN (Well assuming I was one of the TOOLS)..

 

[smellthejeta]

But they were far and few between compared to the Space Shuttle ROBOTS that we were all forced to work with in HELL, err I mean IAD.

I always thought hell was ORD, not IAD.

 

[treetopflyer]

But they were far and few between compared to the Space Shuttle ROBOTS that we were all forced to work with in HELL, err I mean IAD.

I always thought hell was ORD, not IAD.

yes, but you never got it in the days of sin my friend, i will miss the days of ACA and the rebel riders who worked there. and some tools as well. but all good people.

 

[ClubORD]

ClubORD will never be forgotten.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ClubORD will never be forgotten.

Hmmm I'd say in about three more weeks it will be forgotten... or at least when Indy goes flush.....

Hell the JETPIGS were forgotten along time ago.....

 

[AZ Typed]

Hmmm I'd say in about three more weeks it will be forgotten... or at least when Indy goes flush.....

Hell the JETPIGS were forgotten along time ago.....

Man - who pi$$ed you off so bad at IDE? You just don't quit, do you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Man - who pi$$ed you off so bad at IDE? You just don't quit, do you?

Why do assume that I am pissed off?

Look, Indy is just another failed failure. Too many pilots are defining themsleves and thier professional identities to a Brand that is hollow and empty. It was never real. Why? Because Tom and Kerry never believed it. They just made it up to keep up moral. That is it.....

I see it for what it is...not what everyone needs it too be....

 

[smellthejeta]

It was never real

In some backwards sort of way, I think I understand that.

Why? Because Tom and Kerry never believed it. They just made it up to keep up morale. That is it.....

If that is true, how come they didn't sell out to Johnnie O when they had the chance and wash their hands of the whole thing? Submit a bottom-feeder-of-all-bottom-feeder proposal (IOW, a "you can't turn us down" proposal) back to UA to resume UAX flying? And didn't the BOD sign off on the whole thing as well?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If that is true, how come they didn't sell out to Johnnie O when they had the chance and wash their hands of the whole thing? Submit a bottom-feeder-of-all-bottom-feeder proposal (IOW, a "you can't turn us down" proposal) back to UA to resume UAX flying? And didn't the BOD sign off on the whole thing as well?

Tom and Kerry don't care about how much gas has gone up. If gas was $5/gal it wouldn't faze them...

They don't want to sell out...they have plenty of personal welath..

What they want to be is what every CEO/President wants to be.... The Darling of Wallstreet. Ego. Pride. Selling out to JO would be admitting failure.

Everyone's job at FlYI is at the whim of the Corp Elites Ego....

INdy will go BK and these gys will get jobs at another airline in a few months. Proabaly just in time for thier 12 month Golden Parachute to expire....

It is what it is... Control what you can...

 

[smellthejeta]

Tom and Kerry don't care about how much gas has gone up. If gas was $5/gal it wouldn't faze them...

They don't want to sell out...they have plenty of personal welath..

What they want to be is what every CEO/President wants to be.... The Darling of Wallstreet. Ego. Pride. Selling out to JO would be admitting failure.

Everyone's job at FlYI is at the whim of the Corp Elites Ego....

INdy will go BK and these gys will get jobs at another airline in a few months. Proabaly just in time for thier 12 month Golden Parachute to expire....

It is what it is... Control what you can...

Now, this is a really dumb question, but can't the BOD force the sale of the company, or require TM/KS et al to do whatever it takes to get a contract to provide lift for another major?

 

[flyin4pennies]

I remember the BOS and LGA lines...high block...those were good trips!!![/quote]

HELL YEAH!!!
A--SPECIALLY IN THE SPRING OF 2001 WHEN BOS FIRST OPENED.

Everyone knew each other's name and no ACA shuffle when passing in the terminal. I'd take a small base over the mega-base anyday.

Flyin was good with the exception of the occasional fuel stop for some of the longer routes. Good pay, (Nothin better than getting CRJ pay, flyin the DOJET, and bidding #9 in base!!)

I just got typed on the lear 60 and was typed on the lear 35 a few months ago. Both times in traning the instructors said that we would never fly anything with such awsome climb performance. I had to laugh. The DOJET BLOWS THE DOORS OFF THE LEARS!!!!!!

TOGA-2-TEN

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Now, this is a really dumb question, but can't the BOD force the sale of the company, or require TM/KS et al to do whatever it takes to get a contract to provide lift for another major?

Now you are getting into a whole new dynamic. The Corp America Board of Directors and Trustee-ship.....

Who serves on these BODs? It is bascially the Fox guarding the Hen house. The Palyers in Corp America all serve on the BOD. Sure they maybe elected by the shareholders....but do you really know who is running and who you are voting for? Do you even have stock?

Is Tom or Kerry a member of another companies BOD? Not sure, but wouldn't be surprised....

Here is an article on Mesaba and it BOD.... you can see how the BOD is alot of self serving interests..

Mesaba filing casts doubt on MAIR ties

Liz Fedor, Star Tribune
Last update: October 21, 2005 at 9:20 PM

When Mesaba Airlines filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 13, its president, John Spanjers, took the hot seat to answer dozens of questions from reporters about how the airline would use Chapter 11 to slash costs and survive the bankruptcy of its only customer, Northwest Airlines.
Notably absent from that session was Paul Foley, the 53-year-old president and CEO of MAIR Holdings, which owns Mesaba and has relied on the airline for most of its revenue and all of the profits that MAIR reports to shareholders.
Foley's silence wasn't lost on some Mesaba employees, who long have criticized what they say is an expensive corporate structure that provides little benefit to the airline or MAIR shareholders.
"I don't know of anybody who can tell me what Paul Foley does on a day-to-day basis at MAIR Holdings," said Tom Wychor, a 16-year Mesaba pilot and chairman of the airline's pilots union.
Through a spokesman, Foley declined numerous Star Tribune interview requests for this story. Though he speaks with Wall Street analysts on a regular basis, Foley rarely meets with reporters.

Pierson (Sandy) Grieve, a MAIR Holdings board member, described Foley as "a very effective operating executive and a good communicator."

Grieve, former CEO of Ecolab Inc., said Foley's leadership is an important reason why "Mesaba has been recognized as a leading airline in terms of safety and efficiency."
Foley was a vice president of operations for a cargo carrier, Atlas Air, when he joined Mesaba in 1999 as its chief executive. At the time, Mesaba Holdings, as it was known then, had one main operating segment -- Mesaba Airlines. But in late 2002, Foley hailed the $3.2 million acquisition of Big Sky Airlines, a small carrier based in Billings, Mont.
"Big Sky is a good example of the type of opportunity we are seeking," Foley said in a news release. "It is an efficiently run company with an excellent safety record and a cost structure that positions it well in the highly competitive regional airline marketplace."
Piling up losses
But Big Sky failed to become the growth vehicle that Foley envisioned. Mesaba accounts for about 97 percent of MAIR's revenue, and Big Sky has piled up almost $11 million in pretax operating losses in three years.
Some Mesaba employees, facing the double-whammy of pay cuts and job losses, said they're tired of paying for a failed airline and redundant corporate overhead. MAIR has agreed to provide Mesaba up to $35 million in bankruptcy financing, but Mesaba employees noted that the only reason MAIR can afford to do so is because of the existence of Mesaba.
"The pilots very clearly see MAIR Holdings and Paul Foley as an expense that we can't afford at this time," Wychor said. Mesaba must "restructure ourselves out of being the only airline supporting two management teams [MAIR and Mesaba] and another carrier's losses."
MAIR's corporate offices are in downtown Minneapolis, far from Mesaba's headquarters in Eagan. Minnesota Twins owner Carl Pohlad is MAIR's chairman and is paid $300,000 a year.

Foley, named CEO in late 2002, has a close relationship with Pohlad and sometimes can be seen in Pohlad's suite at Twins baseball games.
Northwest, which owns 29 percent of MAIR's stock, typically occupies three slots on the board of MAIR Holdings. Grieve, a former chairman of the Metropolitan Airports Commission, holds one of the Northwest seats. The other two recently were vacated by Northwest CEO Doug Steenland and Mickey Foret, former president of Atlas Air and former Northwest chief financial officer.

The remaining board seats are held by Foley; Bob Pohlad, CEO of PepsiAmericas and Carl Pohlad's son; and Donald Benson and Raymond Zehr, executives for Pohlad companies. MAIR's directors are each paid $40,000 a year.
Foley was given a four-year employment contract with MAIR in fall 2004. It included a $500,000 signing bonus.

In fiscal 2005, which ended in March, Foley was paid a $350,000 salary and a $350,000 bonus. His total cash compensation exceeded that of Northwest's Steenland in 2004, who was paid $473,000 during his tenure as president and later chief executive of a company more than 20 times the size of MAIR.
When Foley's compensation package was reported last year, Wade Slagle, a leader within the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) said, "They are more interested in keeping Paul than their mechanics. All we hear in negotiations is how bad things are."
During the six years Foley served as the top executive at Mesaba Airlines and later as the CEO of MAIR Holdings, he has maintained his permanent residence on the East Coast.
A regulatory filing shows that Foley received about $75,000 each of the past three years for living and travel expenses. The company said Foley would continue to get that $75,000 annual cash benefit as long as he kept his legal residence in Westin, Conn., or another city far from Minnesota.
"His living and travel expenses exceed most of our captains' annual pay," said ALPA's Wychor.
Grieve said Foley recently sold his home on the East Coast. "He just moved here," Grieve said. "He's moved into a home in the last couple of weeks. That will change his ability and time to be involved in [community] affairs beyond purely Mesaba."
Foley probably will have regular contact with Mesaba on MAIR's debtor-in-possession financing. A hearing will be conducted on that financing package on Nov. 29.
As of Sept. 30, MAIR had cash and investments worth about $118 million, according to a regulatory filing. MAIR is willing to make $35 million in financing available in two parts, and $20 million of the funding requires Mesaba to produce an "acceptable five-year business plan" by Jan. 31.
The pilots' Wychor sees an artificial separation between the MAIR and Mesaba businesses.
"MAIR fundamentally acts as a vacuum cleaner taking cash from the right pocket of Mesaba," Wychor said, and uses some of that money to "fund a separate suite of executives."