Is US Airways east a bottom feeder?

[B-atch]

.....LONGEVITY and TIME in SERVICE!! That is what I am arguing..

 

[waveflyer]

The east has their longevity - but seniority isn't longevity. The reward for longevity is a bigger payrate. Seniority is how many pilots are below you.

So again- are you saying that a furloughed east pilot should have leapfrogged an AWA pilot who had a job?

 

[B-atch]

..Are you saying that a 20 year pilot should be junior to a 2005 new hire?

 

[St. Nic]

But please answer: should a america west pilot who had a job on the date of the merger be placed below a furloughed east pilot? Is that what you're arguing?

In all fairness, the logical solution is to go by a standard that doesn't float, isn't subjective to what one person thinks is fair and does not change. That best standard is- Date of Hire. So to answer your question, yes.

 

[waveflyer]

If that 20 year pilot was not actually employed by the carrier at the time of the merger absolutely- it's a bit insane to have the expectation that one would- I'd agree it sucks for the 20 year pilot- but its also sucks a lot that the 20 year guy could be on the street after 20 years and not simply move on to greener pastures

 

[waveflyer]

In all fairness, the logical solution is to go by a standard that doesn't float, isn't subjective to what one person thinks is fair and does not change. That best standard is- Date of Hire. So to answer your question, yes.

You can go by DOH all you want- someone not employed shouldn't get anything but recall rights

 

[B-atch]

B- no worries- but I think you're holding on a bit to tight to this legal concept of fairness and confusing it with the fairy tale notion that actual fairness exists in the real world -
Bottom line- no one is confused that the USAIR career has been blotted with extreme unfairness brought on by management taking full advantage of 9/11. It sucks. But one question remains- after the onslaught of 9/11- 1800 east pilots were furloughed- many sold out by their own union in the j4j scam-
That is noted.
But please answer: should a america west pilot who had a job on the date of the merger be placed below a furloughed east pilot? Is that what you're arguing?

Are you, perhaps, insinuating that the NIC award MIGHT be UNFAIR?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

In all fairness, the logical solution is to go by a standard that doesn't float, isn't subjective to what one person thinks is fair and does not change. That best standard is- Date of Hire. So to answer your question, yes.

You would know nothing about fairness. Fairness is whatever goes the easts way.
Where's MCDU today? He working an extra shift at the drive thru to supplement your stellar 190 payrates?
You chose arbitration
You chose the arbitrator
You chose your current situation
Deal with it.
You are nothing more than a job stealer. The misery you find yourself today is because of your actions. Enjoy those payrates.:laugh:

 

[get2flyin]

Wave I respect YOUR opinion. And as such, WE all have ours.. The real facts might NEVER be known. Only the Architects, and perhaps a few hard drives, know the REAL facts about this merger.
One FACT does stand, US Airways HAD and HAS value!! If not, well, Braniff, Eastern, Pan-Am, TWA, etc should I continue. You get the point.

I don't think any intelligent person would try to argue the fact that USAir HAD and HAS value. Aircraft, hubs, gates, routes, employees, loyal frequent fliers, all of these have value...but it was also being dragged down by debt, tremendous overhead, and terrible management that overshadowed the "good" parts of the company.

This is not about choosing SIDES. Its about "Doing what is right".....
It is blatantly obvious that the NIC award was punitive at best!! Perhaps it was done to teach the EAST merger committee a lesson. Point taken. But a fact does stand, one group WAS benefited by the detriment of another. This VIOLATES merger policy, even ALPAs.

Mr. Nicolau also FAILED to acknowledge that the US Airways 1998 pilot contract incorporated a NO-FURLOUGH clause. This was disregarded by management who dramatically DOWNSIZED the airline. 1800+ pilots lost their jobs, when FORCE MAJOUR was declared, due to an unprecedented event, the terrorist attack of September 11, 2001.

OUR flying was out-sourced, multiple markets were abandoned, and the cost structure that had been in place to service a MUCH larger carrier began to implode. BK1 ensued and the rest is history.

Management's PIPE dream had materialized. They were now FREE to impose PUNITIVE contractual demands!! They cut to deep and took more than needed. Even VACATION was decimated for returning furloughees and future new-hires.

Mr Nicolau worked the seniority integration as a generic ,cookie cutter, standard merger . Never did he consider(at least personally) the "Why" US Airways had reached such a dire financial condition. The fact that 1800+ pilots lost their job as a DIRECT result of an UNPRECEDENTED attack on our nation was NEVER considered!! May I remind you that not only the AIRLINE industry, but this nation's ENTIRE economy was shaken to its CORE!! But no, Mr. Nicolau failed to consider this.....And the rest is history....

Have you read Nicolau's award? He took far more into account then you are willing to give him credit for and it was hardly the "cookie cutter" solution that you imply. You are under the mistaken idea he had the obligation to create a remedy based on what AWA "was"at the time of the merger and what USAir "could have" or "should have" been. Quite the contrary, he took a snapshot of what both airlines "actually were" and based his award on those factors. I'm sorry things sucked at USAir but that wasn't Nicalou's doing, nor was it Parker's doing. The fact that reality sucked and now YOU don't like the Award doesn't mean it violated any of the provisions set forth for the creation of the settlement. And now you think "doing what's right" means giving you what you think you are entitled to? Really?

Another thought: You do know that AWA also furloughed as a result of September 11th but had recovered from this terrible event, AND was expanding at a ferocious pace? Enough with the "poor us", September 11th, wave a flag. The fact that USAir was foundering hardly meant the industry was in the same shape. I think it's safe to say the rest of the industry was collectively holding its breath, waiting for the inevitable liquidation of USAir that would have helped the overcapacity that existed. Parker's move was more of a defensive one, keeping SWA from "capturing the flag" in PHL and trying to box AWA into PHX and LAS. Ask you other buddies of UAL, CO, Delta, SWA, etc...to your face they told you how sad it was you were getting hosed, but they were counting on the collapse of USAir to pole-vault them back to the glory days. If they deny it, they're lying to you. NOBODY wanted to see a bunch of pilots have their career go up in smoke, but everybody was looking at the floor waiting for it to happen.

 

[TWA Dude]

....This makes HIS decision a SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE one... Leaving to much room for prejudice and personal perception..

By gosh, I think you've figured out the system. Bravo!

At the risk of restating the obvious, when you take your case to a judge or arbitrator you risk not getting what you want or feel you deserve or are entitled to. Both sides know this going in so crying "unfair" afterwards is irrelevant.

If your last sentence held any truth, the APPEAL PROCESS would be MOOT!!

Which appeal process?