Is Uncle Worse Than Sh**inga?

[gunfyter]

Well well ... management thuggery. Say it ain't so! G4? Yip?

 

[pilotyip]

Well well ... management thuggery. Say it ain't so! G4? Yip?

No more like leadership failure

 

[gunfyter]

No more like leadership failure

You say potato. I say management thuggery!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO
EASTERN DIVISION
THOMAS BOWDEN, WILLIAM BRUNET,
THOMAS JETER, WILLIAM TUMLIN,
and DAVID YEAGER,
Plaintiffs,
vs. Case No.
FLIGHT OPTIONS, L.L.C., 02-CV-1768
Defendant. Judge Nugent
- - - - -
Deposition of KENNETH C. RICCI, taken as if
upon cross-examination before Lynn A. Konitsky,
a Certified Realtime Reporter and Notary Public
within and for the State of Ohio, at the offices
of Gallagher, Sharp, Fulton and Norman, 1501
Euclid Avenue, Seventh Floor Bulkley Building,
Cleveland, Ohio, at 10:10 a.m. on Tuesday,
September 9, 2003, pursuant to notice and/or
agreement of counsel, on behalf of the Plaintiffs
in this cause.

Q. Were there discussions of the pilot groups during
the course of these negotiations?
A. Yes.
Q. What were those discussions?
A. A discussion about how seniority would integrate,
a discussion about the union that was being
organized at Travel Air. We did extensive
comparisons of the salary structures between the
two groups to attempt to understand what the
ultimate cost structure would be of putting those
two groups together.
Q. When was the union-organizing drive among the
Travel Air pilots first mentioned in these
discussions?
A. I don't know at what meeting it was first
discussed, but early on, because once we began to
look at this, we would look at the posting boards
on the Internet and we could see the activity.
I believe, even at some point in time, the
teamsters had a page on their website that talked
about the unionization at Travel Air, so we were
concerned about what the implications of that
would be for, to bring the two companies
together.
Q. And were the Flight Options managers referring to
those outlets in order to gather that
information, that is the Internet sites you
mentioned?
A. By managers, I was looking at them.
Q. You were?
A. Sure, yes.
Q. This was during the course of the negotiations
over a potential merger?
A. Yes, because I think we were concerned that if we
were going to merge with a company that was going
to ferret a union, it could considerably change
our cost structure, number one.
Number two, as I mentioned to you earlier in
the deposition, I had no desire to run that type
of company, to be involved in that kind of
management.
Q. And you looked at an Internet message board where
pilots could post messages, do you recall that?
A. Yeah, there was that. I mean, I would
frequently, there are Internet Web boards where
pilots, you can look up NetJets, you can look up
Flex Jet, there are boards on all those companies
and I would read them. I didn't just start
reading them when we started talking to Raytheon,
I was keeping abreast of my competition
throughout all the life of Flight Options. So I
would regularly, you know, see what was going on
at my competition and whether or not there was a
strategic advantage to be gained.
Q. And these pilot message boards was one of the
methods you used to gather that information?
A. Yes. There were also, some of our competitors
also had 800 numbers that their pilots would call
in, and I would listen to those sometimes.
Q. In looking at the RTA Internet message board, do
you recall in the fall/winter of 2001 during the
period of the merger discussions, do you recall
seeing messages on the board about the union?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall what the extent of those, what the
substance of some of those messages were?
A. I don't recall the specific substance of
messages, you know, call it union chatter about
why, you know, people were discussing why they
should have a union, they were discussing who
could be trusted and who couldn't be trusted at
RTA.
You're talking about Raytheon, not Flex Jet
or something, correct?
Q. Right. Raytheon.
A. About who the people in management were that they
liked or didn't like and, you know, I think we
were just gaining intelligence and we didn't want
to make, we didn't want to make a bad deal
either.
Q. And you recall messages on there that were pro
union?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you recall any persons who were posting on
that message board?
A. Well, there came a time, after the deal was
announced, where I paid a lot more attention to
the message board than I did before. So if
you're asking me before the merger, you know,
there was somebody called Merlin who was, I
believe, was just a fictitious name who was
probably the most, you know, vehement in terms of
their positioning.
But once the deal was announced -- and
remember that by the time we had signed the
letter, the cards were already out, so this had
progressed from chatter on an Internet board to a
formalized organizing effort, and so it required
a lot of my attention from the time we announced
the letter of intent, to get my views out as to
how you run a company and to explain to the
incoming Raytheon pilots what life would be like,
and so I spent a lot more time, after the letter
of intent, seeing who was on the Web board, names
and so on.
Q. And that letter of intent was announced when?
A. I don't remember the exact date, December 20th
seems to ring a bell.
Q. Of 2001?
A. Yes.

 

[pilotyip]

You say potato. I say management thuggery!

If you had good leadership, someone who was looking out for you none of this would be taking place. I think of managment as the guys in accounting who pay the bills, the guys in ops who comply with the regs and marketing guys who sell product. Simple day to day functions that make it possible for a company to operate.

 

[Diesel]

You say potato. I say management thuggery!

Lol.

Yip doesn't want to say management thuggery but union thuggery is fine.

 

[pilotyip]

Lol.

Yip doesn't want to say management thuggery but union thuggery is fine.

How about leadership thuggery, I could like that one, but do you mean by management that the guys in accounting are beating you up?

 

[Diesel]

How about leadership thuggery, I could like that one, but do you mean by management that the guys in accounting are beating you up?

I think if any department that has caused more damage to the brand and the pilots would be accounting.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So there had to be financial disclosure when DAC bought Flex from Bombardier and the STIP payout had to be disclosed in the settlement figures. What was the payout from Bombardier and at 1+% paid to the pilots, can anyone figure out how much Uncle put in his pocket?

 

[993_Pilot]

... I think of managment as the guys in accounting who pay the bills, the guys in ops who comply with the regs and marketing guys who sell product. Simple day to day functions that make it possible for a company to operate.

You might like to think of it in those simple terms, but that certainly doesn't make it correct.

How about leadership thuggery, I could like that one, but do you mean by management that the guys in accounting are beating you up?

I think you are confused. "Leadership" is a quality of good management, thuggery and fear are qualities of bad management. Management is NOT accounting. Accounting, like every other department, does what management tells (or inspires) them to.

If you had good leadership, someone who was looking out for you none of this would be taking place...

We can agree on that.

 

[luckydog]

So there had to be financial disclosure when DAC bought Flex from Bombardier and the STIP payout had to be disclosed in the settlement figures. What was the payout from Bombardier and at 1+% paid to the pilots, can anyone figure out how much Uncle put in his pocket?

I think you're referring to the bonus earned in 2013 but paid after the sale in 2014. That was covered by BBD, not DAC.

Without any metrics or even budget numbers its impossible to calculate what the 2014 bonus would have been using the same formula as 2013. KR is quoted as saying that a $4.5M payout to the pilots was "unpalatable". I guess $350K is tolerable, giving a difference of about $4.1M.

I'm pretty sure I know what the 2015 bonus is, and it is definitely unpalatable.

 

[G4dude]

Well well ... management thuggery. Say it ain't so! G4? Yip?

I agree. Thuggery is thuggery. Ricci deserves the meanest union possible. Alternatively, all his pilots should take the good money coming from the pilot shortage and go elsewhere if they can. Leave him high and dry.

 

[pilotyip]

I agree. Thuggery is thuggery. Ricci deserves the meanest union possible.

This we agree on

 

[BlueNose]

Speaking of the other half of this comparison, look who's out as head of Signature & the Flight Support division. From a BBA statement 5/8:

Michael Scheeringa (President and CEO, Flight Support) resigned from BBA Aviation to pursue other opportunities. Michael has stepped down from the Executive Committee and ceased to have operational responsibility for Flight Support from 1st May. Responsibility for the division has been transferred to Simon Pryce, Group Chief Executive. Michael will remain within the organisation to ensure a smooth transition until he leaves the Group later in the year. The Board thanks Michael for his efforts and significant contribution during his time at BBA Aviation and wishes him well in the next phase of his career.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I agree. Thuggery is thuggery. Ricci deserves the meanest union possible. Alternatively, all his pilots should take the good money coming from the pilot shortage and go elsewhere if they can. Leave him high and dry.

Sorry G4, I'm in this for the long haul.

BTW, Uncle is going to use one of the brand new Gulfstreams for his personal airplane instead of it going to the line to generate revenue. If he can afford that, he can afford to give me a nice raise. GC