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Is this Pay for Training?

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Fixin2Lnd

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Posts
24
Is this pay for training? (PFT)
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"Multi time building"
A friend of mine just baught a Seneca II Turbo and its available for time building. The aircraft is really clean and has less than 2700TT. Its equipped with IFR GPS, RNAV, Bendix Radios, WX Radar etc.... the block is available for $140/hr and you can share it for half the price. and thats really cheap. Also if you need any multi engine ratings we have guranteed courses that will give as much flying time as need to get your rating. This plane is also great to keep your currency. contact me at [email protected] for furter info.

$140/hr for ME-recip Part 91
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Or is this PFT?
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100 multi hrs for 5,500 bones
Wow, any of you time builders out there see this months issue of flying??

There was a add for 100hrs in a duchess for 5, 500 dollars. I cant seem to believe this, I paid 158.00 an hr in a seneca to get my multi. shessh.

Anyway, wondering if anyone has done that program at Ft.pierce?

macfly
$5500/100hrs = $55/hr for ME recip Part 91.
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Or is Gulfstream International PFT?
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$18000/250hrs = $72/hr for ME Turbine time, Part 121 Commercial Airline Experience
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$140 vs. $72 vs $55 / hr. Isn't this all "Pay for Training"? Please explain...
 
"Pay for Training" and "Buying Time" are two different things.

Aimlessly building time in a multi with a friend, or alone (not for hire) should be considered "buying time" and not necessarily "pay for training." (by "aimlessly" I mean not working towards any kind of rating).

But, an outfit that hires you to perform a service (such as transporting passengers), and then requires you to pay for your own training, now that's PFT.

I don't see any reason why anyone would need/want to do either of these.
 
The first two, I think, are instances "buying time" since you're not performing a service for anyone.

The last one is definitely PFT, since you will be performing "Part 121 Commercial Airline Experience," which is a service.
 
Is This PFT?- What you are proposing is "renting" or giving "instruction" in an aircraft to people who are looking to "BUILD" multi-engine flight time and/or build experience .1) By doing this, Is this taking that "seat" away from a "deserving" pilot?- Clearly N O- 2) Are you doing absolutely anything to ALTER or "disrupt" hiring practices?- N O. All you are doing is "selling" block time WITHOUT effecting hiring practices,etc,etc,etc...<refer to Gulfstream posts to compare if need be on your end>
This would be comparable to going out to your local FBO and renting an airplane for a "cost/fee" which is NOT considered PFT it is merely considered paying for a service/equipment which the FBO is rendering.- As for the Gulfstream program enough has been said and it is clear what you are "BUYING",etc....- Their are plenty of threads concerning this so I won't even comment..-

PFT can and does have many meanings BUT in its most severe meaning in which upsets many IS the "taking the seat away from pilots who are "qualified" and replacing them with people who are less qualified in terms of skills BUT more qualified in the sense of being able to write a blank check- a skill Gulfstream PFTrs are exceptional at....- I see in no way shape or form that buying block time in an aircraft as in the scenario which you have proposed could be considered PFT although sure some will try and justify how it is no different than what Gulfstream is doing-go figure.

cheers-
 
So the way I see it, it is purely economics. I don't understand what all the hype is about. It seems like the majors are looking for the best time available so this Gulfstream thing seems to be the best option.
 
How are you taking this seat from someone else? If you want it, pay for it. Who defines who's more qualified? You? I thought the FAA gave everyone a certificate that states that they are qualified to fly AMEL. Right? I don't think you can fly at Gulfstream without one. So they are qualified. What's your point? And, to fly these other twins for $$, wouldn't you have to have a AMEL ticket as well? I still think it comes down to economics. If you have the money, and you think it will get you hired with better ME-Turbine time, then go for it. If you don't have the money, then rent something cheaper. It's all PFT, isn't it?
 
Fixn2Lnd,

By PFT'ing, not only do you harm the community by making it seem like an acceptable practice, but also harm yourself and your career.

Most of the pilot hiring is done by current or former pilots. So, seeing PFT like Gulfstream on your resume will definitely leave a bad taste in their mouth.
 
BOSCenter post---
"By PFT'ing, not only do you harm the community by making it seem like an acceptable practice, but also harm yourself and your career.
Most of the pilot hiring is done by current or former pilots. So, seeing PFT like Gulfstream on your resume will definitely leave a bad taste in their mouth"
===
Is this your opinion or fact? Do you do airline hiring? Why is there an abundance Gulfstream guys/gals at American, United, Delta, Northwest, Southwest, etc? Do you think these pilots lied on their resumes? Don't airlines do 10 year background checks? Wouldn't they have found out that they had flown at such a "TERRIBLE" outfit and not hired them?
How is this harming the community? Am I dumping fuel?
 
-appears that can of worms has opened....

fasten your seatbelts....this one gonna get bumpy now-
 
No

PFT is when you whore yourself out and take a job away from a pilot that is more qualified and experienced. Typical PFT whores are 90 day 250 hr Commercial Multi wonders who spend $20,000 instead of working their way up. They bypass years of experience and learning

If you want to buy a 727 and go shoot touch and gos for 1000 hrs thats not PFT
 

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