Is the Southwest pay/contract sustainable at current market?

[pilotyip]

Ummm, that article doesn't say anything about burger flippers making $100k a year. It says they make $20k a year now if they work 40 hours a week at it.

What's your point?

I think you implied that I was comparing pilots to burger flippers, not the case. The "yea" was meant to be sarcastic. Most pilots who have been in this career for 10 years are averaging 100K. A number I have never seen in my life, therefore I think it is a nice number.

 

[redflyer65]

I have never heard of a single person ever failing and losing a job.

I've heard of it happening. It's always a possiblity...albeit rare. Which is a good thing.

RF

 

[Quiet Flight]

Point of information, the "average" SWA pay for both Captains and F/O's on this thread are over stated by a pretty significant amount.

There are a relative few who achieve great heights compared to the rest, however this is limited to a very small number.

Most pilots make 100 x TFP + per diem with a little extra throughout the year for vacation month increases.

Average longevity for Captains is 15 years and for F/O's it's about 6 years.

12 yr CA TFP = 189
6 yr FO TFP = 119

189 x 1200 = 226,800 + 6000/per diem = $233k
119 x 1200 = 142,800 + 6000/per diem = $149k

YMMV

 

[4day]

Good to here from a Real SouthWest. Do you have a bag tag yet?

 

[Lear70]

I think you implied that I was comparing pilots to burger flippers, not the case. The "yea" was meant to be sarcastic. Most pilots who have been in this career for 10 years are averaging 100K. A number I have never seen in my life, therefore I think it is a nice number.

Lay off the Yipsi crack pipe, my friend...

Most pilots 10 years after they get their CMEL ticket are still at a Regional making about $65-70k a year as a Captain.

If they're lucky. I know more than a handful of CMR pilots who are on the street at 10+ years (or more).

 

[Lear70]

Point of information, the "average" SWA pay for both Captains and F/O's on this thread are over stated by a pretty significant amount.

There are a relative few who achieve great heights compared to the rest, however this is limited to a very small number.

Most pilots make 100 x TFP + per diem with a little extra throughout the year for vacation month increases.

Average longevity for Captains is 15 years and for F/O's it's about 6 years.

12 yr CA TFP = 189
6 yr FO TFP = 119

189 x 1200 = 226,800 + 6000/per diem = $233k
119 x 1200 = 142,800 + 6000/per diem = $149k

YMMV

I initially put that in one of my posts but removed it, not wanting to get into a SWA pay thread creep.

Most of us will probably average in the 92-95 per month TFP range as commuters wanting 16+ days off a month and being in the bottom half of the seniority list.

 

[jonjuan]

Lay off the Yipsi crack pipe, my friend...

Most pilots 10 years after they get their CMEL ticket are still at a Regional making about $65-70k a year as a Captain.

If they're lucky. I know more than a handful of CMR pilots who are on the street at 10+ years (or more).

And I know more than a few who went from MEL to SWA and DAL in 5. The hiring boom and new contracts at UAL US and AMR will change the numbers dramatically and very soon.

 

[JT12345]

SWA pilots are well paid but we work hard and are efficient...the pay is sustainable as long as we stay efficient...

Well I am timing out for the year. Are you? How many time out over there on the SWA side?

I am looking at a $10k raise on reserve at SWA vs. Lineholder AAI. That looks about it. I will have 15 days off non commutable instead of 12 off busting my arse to make money here at AAI and time out, but commutable. I have to be on reserve commuting to who knows what base, but it will probably be further and harder to commute to for awhile.

And now I read about the transition issues, and think this is really going to be messed up. I like to see them save money on training expense, but kinda sucks someone junior is making more than me. It is just temporary. I worry about more -long term-.

And the transition is the least of the things I worry about with the financials of SWA although if it would have been done smoother with less road bumps they would probably be making more money from the merger.


I think SWA does a great job of building schedules. They squeeze those short legs in to max your days, and they have a contract pay schedule that motivates the pilots to shave time off every leg saving fuel.

I do not work there yet. I am always down at the jet bridge waiting for the plane arriving late to pull up to do my walk around and turn that puppy. I am curious what else you guys do, and look forward to that. It seems slow. I just wonder and worry if I am going to make it over there.

Latest I hear the process might be speeding up.

 

[scoreboardII]

You''ll do great.

 

[HA25]

So the government deregulates the airlines, the free market has a chance to take over, people show that allowed to choose they would rather pay less for a ticket, than get a steak and lobster dinner on the flight.

It's far more complicated than cutting out the steak and lobster..

Airfares are lower than they ever were.

as are airline profit margins and their survival rates..

There are more airline pilot jobs at the majors than there ever were.

paying far less than they ever did..

There are more people flying, more miles on more airplanes than ever. And deregulation is a failure?

Partially, yes... and partially no... it's just not a matter of black and white... we need some gray.