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Is the Piaggio a two man crew or not?

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se1776

splash 8
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
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Last edited:
91k requires 2 pilots in all turbine aircraft. Not 135. If I'm not mistaken, it also requires the captain to have his/her ATP.
 
Actually the A 57 op spec requires a two pilot crew so we need two pilot crews for revenue. only about 7 pilots in the company are allowed to do repos solo, and that depends many times on the weather
The A57 op spec is also where the rule for the PIC with an ATP comes from.
 
I believe the question was, is the Piaggio a two man crew or not? Your op specs have no bearing on what is required for the rest of us. I understand that two pilots and an ATP are requirements for your company but the aircraft is certified single pilot and can also be flown as such under part 135 as long as you are using an autopilot in lieu of a second in command.
 
I would think a Kingair 200 and a Piaggio would fall under the same regulations. Both are turbo prop aircraft under 12500lbs. So single pilot operations should be do-able for 91 and 135.

whiskytangofoxt, what kind of operation is your company?
 
J3 Driver said:
I believe the question was, is the Piaggio a two man crew or not? Your op specs have no bearing on what is required for the rest of us. I understand that two pilots and an ATP are requirements for your company but the aircraft is certified single pilot and can also be flown as such under part 135 as long as you are using an autopilot in lieu of a second in command.
Click to expand...

You are correct about the original question. However, the question was asked in the Fractional forum so the discussion of the ops specs requirements is justified. The point has been made that it is certified as a single pilot aircraft, but under 91K it is operated with two pilots per the ops specs.

Dilligaff
 
If you are operating just Pt. 91 then no. What they are refering to is Fractional ops (Pt 91K) as below.

§ 91.1049 Personnel.

(a) Each program manager and each fractional owner must use in program operations on program aircraft flight crews meeting §91.1053 criteria and qualified under the appropriate regulations. The program manager must provide oversight of those crews.
(b) Each program manager must employ (either directly or by contract) an adequate number of pilots per program aircraft. Flight crew staffing must be determined based on the following factors, at a minimum:
(1) Number of program aircraft.
(2) Program manager flight, duty, and rest time considerations, and in all cases within the limits set forth in §§91.1057 through 91.1061.
(3) Vacations.
(4) Operational efficiencies.
(5) Training.
(6) Single pilot operations, if authorized by deviation under paragraph (d) of this section.
(c) Each program manager must publish pilot and flight attendant duty schedules sufficiently in advance to follow the flight, duty, and rest time limits in §§91.1057 through 91.1061 in program operations.
(d) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, when any program aircraft is flown in program operations with passengers onboard, the crew must consist of at least two qualified pilots employed or contracted by the program manager or the fractional owner.
(e) The program manager must ensure that trained and qualified scheduling or flight release personnel are on duty to schedule and release program aircraft during all hours that such aircraft are available for program operations.
 
Dustin H said:
I would think a Kingair 200 and a Piaggio would fall under the same regulations. Both are turbo prop aircraft under 12500lbs. So single pilot operations should be do-able for 91 and 135.

whiskytangofoxt, what kind of operation is your company?
Click to expand...

Ummm.....just a wild ass guess.........Avantair, the only US fractional that operates a fleet of Piaggio's. Most fracs require 2 pilots, especially with the volume of operations conducted. And don't even get me started on the differences between a King Air xxx (insert flavor) and a Piaggio.
 
myrealnameis said:
Ummm.....just a wild ass guess.........Avantair, the only US fractional that operates a fleet of Piaggio's. Most fracs require 2 pilots, especially with the volume of operations conducted. And don't even get me started on the differences between a King Air xxx (insert flavor) and a Piaggio.
Click to expand...
Settle down ghost rider.
a turbo prop is a turbo prop no matter how pretty it is, or how many pilots you have to cramm in it.
 
Last edited:
Sec. 135.4

(a) An "eligible on-demand operation" is an on-demand operation conducted under this part that meets the following requirements:
(1) Two-pilot crew. The flightcrew must consist of at least two qualified pilots employed or contracted by the certificate holder.
 
hammer2 said:
Settle down ghost rider.
a turbo prop is a turbo prop no matter how pretty it is, or how many pilots you have to cramm in it.
Click to expand...

I have to differ... The Piaggio, while still a 'lowly' tuboprop, regularly moves back and forth across the country during it's travels. Admittedly, a fuel stop is usually a requirement, but Sun Valley to Florida makes for a good leg. Last tour, I crossed the US 4 times in a week, usually at FL 390 or 410.
That's what makes the job so much fun!

Also, didn't hear a whole lot of KingAir chatter up there...
 
I also have to differ...

I don't know of too many turboprops that require the pilot to pull back the power to maintain 250kias below 10,000'.
 
B19 Flyer said:
Sec. 135.4

(a) An "eligible on-demand operation" is an on-demand operation conducted under this part that meets the following requirements:
(1) Two-pilot crew. The flightcrew must consist of at least two qualified pilots employed or contracted by the certificate holder.
Click to expand...

Of course you have to read all of the regulations but flying a turbo-prop single pilot under part 135 takes place everyday.

Section 135.105: Exception to second in command requirement: Approval for use of autopilot system.

(a) Except as provided in §§135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications. No certificate holder may use any person, nor may any person serve, as a pilot in command under this section of an aircraft operated in a commuter operation, as defined in part 119 of this chapter unless that person has at least 100 hours pilot in command flight time in the make and model of aircraft to be flown and has met all other applicable requirements of this part.
(b) The certificate holder may apply for an amendment of its operations specifications to authorize the use of an autopilot system in place of a second in command.
(c) The Administrator issues an amendment to the operations specifications authorizing the use of an autopilot system, in place of a second in command, if—
(1) The autopilot is capable of operating the aircraft controls to maintain flight and maneuver it about the three axes; and
(2) The certificate holder shows, to the satisfaction of the Administrator, that operations using the autopilot system can be conducted safely and in compliance with this part.
The amendment contains any conditions or limitations on the use of the autopilot system that the Administrator determines are needed in the interest of safety.
 
ekuflyer said:
If you are operating just Pt. 91 then no. What they are refering to is Fractional ops (Pt 91K) as below.

§ 91.1049 Personnel.

(a) Each program manager and each fractional owner must use in program operations on program aircraft flight crews meeting §91.1053 criteria and qualified under the appropriate regulations. The program manager must provide oversight of those crews.
(b) Each program manager must employ (either directly or by contract) an adequate number of pilots per program aircraft. Flight crew staffing must be determined based on the following factors, at a minimum:
(1) Number of program aircraft.
(2) Program manager flight, duty, and rest time considerations, and in all cases within the limits set forth in §§91.1057 through 91.1061.
(3) Vacations.
(4) Operational efficiencies.
(5) Training.
(6) Single pilot operations, if authorized by deviation under paragraph (d) of this section.
(c) Each program manager must publish pilot and flight attendant duty schedules sufficiently in advance to follow the flight, duty, and rest time limits in §§91.1057 through 91.1061 in program operations.
(d) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, when any program aircraft is flown in program operations with passengers onboard, the crew must consist of at least two qualified pilots employed or contracted by the program manager or the fractional owner.
(e) The program manager must ensure that trained and qualified scheduling or flight release personnel are on duty to schedule and release program aircraft during all hours that such aircraft are available for program operations.
Click to expand...

What! I am not saying it is a good idea but you can fly around single pilot part 91 all you want. It is still a turbo-prop no matter which way you turn the motors. I am aware that they are talking about fractionals as well but the answer is still yes even though Avantair uses a crew of 2; which I am sure we all would agree is a good thing.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Pebbles said:
Sure..... People who wish they were flying a jet can deceive themselves fairly easily. A shame.
Click to expand...


I can't speak for anyone else but I quit flying jets to fly the super prop that is the P-180. (Granted my last jet job sucked)
 

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