Is tailwheel endorsement really necessary?

[Lead Sled]

If I were King of the World...

I'd make it a requirement that you would have to have proficiency in a taildragger, a certain amount glider time, and aerobatic experience in order to qualify for any grade of airman certificate. But, then again, I'm not King of the World.

'Sled

 

[81Horse]

Good thinking, Sled. Fifty hours of watching a yaw string would wake up anyone's feet.

 

[Lead Sled]

Good thinking, Sled. Fifty hours of watching a yaw string would wake up anyone's feet.

I don't think that it would take 50 hours to "wake up" most guys feet.

Can a guy, these days, have a successful aviation career without flying a taildragger? Of course. And real pilots don't have to have taildragger time. However, once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, I flew for an airline. The chief pilot told me once that he could always tell if a guy had any taildragger time or not when he flew the 727. His meaning was that even in something like a 727, you could tell if a guy knew what his feet were for. In the 20 something years since then, I've never found a good reason to disagree with his statement.

Personally, I think that a person's aeronautical education isn't complete until s/he has some taildragger, glider and aerobatic time. This stuff isn't expensive as compared to other training that you will do and the benefits are immediate and lasting.

'Sled

 

[MDAutry]

Try a J3-180 with six feet of wing stretch!

Yeah, I am building time right now but I know for sure that the actual flying I am doing is making me a much more proficient pilot. I was just a passenger until I got my first 50 hours of tail time. Not to mention my first and hopefully last ground loop...

 

[Gorilla]

So you guys think gliders will help?

In my quest for a homebuilt (probably an RV), I keep thinking the tricycle RV's are for weenies, and I need the TD. I've flown everything from gliders to 777's, but haven't flown a true TD. I am ashamed to admit this, and want to round out my skills with a taildragger. It's been so long since I've flared any airplane with my butt any lower than about 75 feet up from the runway, I KNOW I am going to prang a few, due to ground rush.

 

[Lead Sled]

...It's been so long since I've flared any airplane with my butt any lower than about 75 feet up from the runway, I KNOW I am going to prang a few, due to ground rush.

Once upon a time, I checked out the chief pilot for our airline in a glider. He was flying DC-10s at the time. It was UGLY. He finally got it figured out though and did a good job.

'Sled

 

[canyonflyer]

I think there are a lot of similarities between taildraggers and gliders (there are even some gliders that are taildraggers!) But really, it just comes down to developing the coordintation between hands and feet, a skill that unfortunately seems to be lacking in some aviators these days. Landing a glider with a single centerline wheel is flown until it is absolutely not moving - and you're keeping it straight with rudder and aileron. The same is true in a TD, you're not done flying until it's parked. I've never seen a TD groundlooped, but I've seen several gliders go around.
I think gliders also help you develop the ability to better judge speed and altitude just over the ground - not many other flying machines have you sitting less that 12" off the ground!
BTW - I'm not a rated glider pilot, but I spent 2 years dragging them around the sky. I soloed in one, and had several solo flights, including one 3 hour flight up to 14,000'! Learning to use the environment around you is also another valuable lesson learned from gliders, but that may be another thread.

canyonflyer

 

[81Horse]

... The same is true in a TD, you're not done flying until it's parked.

And chocked. And tied down. Then, and only then, can you go home knowing you've had a groundloop-free day.

At least that's what my granddad used to say.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

About the only thing it will do for your career is give you something else to talk about in an interview. It will allow you to gain more skill flying but won't keep you from an airline job. Much like many other once needed ratings like the seaplane, flight navigator, and increasingly the flight engineer, these are all ratings that are almost if not completely unneeded for a person just starting thier career. If you had the opportunity to do these and can afford to then by all means do them. I did my seaplane rating because it was free (except for the $200 for the examiner fee) for instructing a year at my old college.

 

[nosehair]

About the only thing it will do for your career is give you something else to talk about in an interview. It will allow you to gain more skill flying but won't keep you from an airline job. Much like many other once needed ratings like the seaplane, flight navigator, and increasingly the flight engineer, these are all ratings that are almost if not completely unneeded for a person just starting thier career.

???....Did you just wake up and decide to post something without reading any of the other posts???

It will make him a better pilot.
No, it won't make any points on interview selection, and probably won't make any difference in selection after the interview, even if it makes some small talk about tailwheels during the interview.
But it will make him a better pilot.
Getting the interview is just starting. Keeping your career is the main job, not getting the interview. Keeping the job is the main point to have as a goal - not "getting the interview".

So, once you have the job, and you are seen as a "good stick", then you are golden - as long as you keep your nose clean.

Being a tailwheel pilot makes you a good stick.

 

[flyboycpa]

Tailwheel pilots have balls.. the rest are just women.. dressed in mens clothing..

That's interesting.....my wife has 300 hours TT, only 20 of that is tricycle (and that's only because we recently did her high performance signoff in a buddy's 182 and did some trips) PLUS she owns her own 1947 Stinson 108-1 Voyager. I don't think that she has balls, though. In fact I'm sure, I've looked!

fb

 

[81Horse]

PLUS she owns her own 1947 Stinson 108-1 Voyager. I don't think that she has balls, though.

Okay -- still, she's a stud!

 

[Tram]

That's interesting.....my wife has 300 hours TT, only 20 of that is tricycle (and that's only because we recently did her high performance signoff in a buddy's 182 and did some trips) PLUS she owns her own 1947 Stinson 108-1 Voyager. I don't think that she has balls, though. In fact I'm sure, I've looked!

fb

Eh.. ok.. I guess you totally missed what I was trying to get at.. Oh well..

 

[Lead Sled]

About the only thing it will do for your career is give you something else to talk about in an interview. It will allow you to gain more skill flying but won't keep you from an airline job. Much like many other once needed ratings like the seaplane, flight navigator, and increasingly the flight engineer, these are all ratings that are almost if not completely unneeded for a person just starting thier career. If you had the opportunity to do these and can afford to then by all means do them. I did my seaplane rating because it was free (except for the $200 for the examiner fee) for instructing a year at my old college.

I've got to disagree with you. Have those ratings and endorsements could, in a round about way, get you that airline job. Remember, for the most part, everyone at that level is pretty much equally qualified and basically a clone of everyone else. When I was hired by one of the majors, the fact that I had learned to fly and had a bunch of time in tail draggers and also had a glider rating set me apart from the crowd - go figure? (The chief pilot was a soaring enthusiast and as I mentioned in a previous post, he told me once that he could always spot guys with taildragger time when they flew a B727.) My advise for you guys wanting to break into the business is to concentrate on the "total package", not just the "essential" licenses, ratings, and flight time.

'Sled

 

[Tram]

I'm not that far into my career.. but I totally agree with Lead Sled..

Everyone shows up at the interview with all the same boxes checked... Anything you can offer that will help you stand out, in a positive way, could help...

The fact of the matter is, a tail wheel endorsement, complimented with a good handful of tailwheel time, will indeed make you a better stick/rudder guy...

 

[Say Again Over]

I don't think tailwheel experience gives me ANY advantage flying a modern jet.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Interviewer looking at Application:
Hmmmm.... let's see, ATP, 2000 multi-PIC, 121/135 experience, turbojet...
bla bla bla....oh! Tail wheel! In a (insert classic plane here)!! I loved that plane.

Sometimes, certain things really make you stand out. My tailwheel has impressed
a few, usually the older crustier (not an insult) pilots.


Not only tailwheel. In one interview, the guy saw the Citation time and could
not care less. Saw my F-27 time and were instant friends (guy had thousands
of captain hours in them). You never know what will peak a person's interest.

CE

 

[Lead Sled]

Interviewer looking at Application:
Hmmmm.... let's see, ATP, 2000 multi-PIC, 121/135 experience, turbojet...
bla bla bla....oh! Tail wheel! In a (insert classic plane here)!! I loved that plane.

Sometimes, certain things really make you stand out. My tailwheel has impressed a few, usually the older crustier (not an insult) pilots.

Not only tailwheel. In one interview, the guy saw the Citation time and could not care less. Saw my F-27 time and were instant friends (guy had thousands of captain hours in them). You never know what will peak a person's interest.

That was exactly my point. As far as Say Again Over's comments, I've flown with more than a few pilots in "modern" jets who seem to have "issues" with runway alignment once the yaw dampner comes off on short final or in the flair. Again, a lot of guys never really have figured out what their feet are there for.

'Sled

 

[Tram]

I don't think tailwheel experience gives me ANY advantage flying a modern jet.

That's probably because you can't fly a tailwheel aircraft..

 

[81Horse]

That's probably because you can't fly a tailwheel aircraft..

Let's be fair: flying them is no great challenge. It's those few moments between flying and driving that build character.