Is Flexjet still around

[Hawker dude]

Yeah, we pilots are so much smarter than all the managers at the Fracs...

Um. Dum@as&. How many managers used to be pilots? You are such a ........

 

[G4dude]

I'm not sure that's completely accurate. I do think that the unemployment numbers will rise a bit for January, but mostly because a lot of the jobs created in December were holiday jobs.

IMHO, Obama's got a second term coming unless Ron Paul gets the Republican nomination...

I would agree about Ron Paul if it weren't for his isolationist views on foreign policy, which are quite dangerous and reflect the way the Republican Party felt in the 30s, which allowed Hitler to build his military.

 

[G4dude]

Um. Dum@as&. How many managers used to be pilots? You are such a ........

You actually have an interesting point. Are there examples of pilots who have become good managers? Maybe, but I am not expert in managerial matters. I always thought Noe did a good job with NJI.

 

[fischman]

You actually have an interesting point. Are there examples of pilots who have become good managers? Maybe, but I am not expert in managerial matters. I always thought Noe did a good job with NJI.

ARE there examples of good managers? :nuts:

 

[doylehargraves]

Seems like things at flexjet are pretty boring right now, and for the last 3 years for that matter. I bet there won't be upgrades at flexjet for at least 5-7 years at the current pace we are treading water at.

 

[G4dude]

Seems like things at flexjet are pretty boring right now, and for the last 3 years for that matter. I bet there won't be upgrades at flexjet for at least 5-7 years at the current pace we are treading water at.

If the economy picks up, upgrades will happen. The Dude has spoken.

 

[G4dude]

I'm glad you're starting to figure this out!

Unemployment went down again. How much longer are we going to use the economy excuse for fracs not doing well? When can we blame management for making our companies a commodity? Today perhaps?

I think expanding now without owner purchases would be a quick way to oblivion. Potential owners are not confident enough about the future to buy shares and Marquis cards in sufficient numbers for us to appreciably expand. The other fracs are going through the same thing.

 

[BentOver]

I think expanding now without owner purchases would be a quick way to oblivion. Potential owners are not confident enough about the future to buy shares and Marquis cards in sufficient numbers for us to appreciably expand. The other fracs are going through the same thing.

I think there is important point you are missing..... NJA managment has no intention of growing. They are in a permanent shrink mode. Probably instructed to do so right from the top brass at BHK..

Hope I am wrong

 

[gret]

I think there is important point you are missing..... NJA managment has no intention of growing. They are in a permanent shrink mode. Probably instructed to do so right from the top brass at BHK..

Hope I am wrong

Just asking a question...why would any management team/owner want to shrink a company other than to match sales with expenses and some profit element? In other words, if you are losing money and your expenses are too high or sales are declining, you will want to reduce expenses to keep them in line with sales. Keeping expenses at an elevated level hoping that sales will return is suicidal.

Growth is almost always preferable to making a company smaller, other than for a working owner who doesn't want the heartburn of employees and overhead.

I've seen this comment before and don't see why one would think this is mgmt's strategy.

 

[fischman]

If you figure out the answer to that, please let the rest of us know.

 

[BentOver]

Just asking a question...why would any management team/owner want to shrink a company other than to match sales with expenses and some profit element? In other words, if you are losing money and your expenses are too high or sales are declining, you will want to reduce expenses to keep them in line with sales. Keeping expenses at an elevated level hoping that sales will return is suicidal.

Growth is almost always preferable to making a company smaller, other than for a working owner who doesn't want the heartburn of employees and overhead.

I've seen this comment before and don't see why one would think this is mgmt's strategy.

I agree it is ridiculuous to purposely shrink a company......I can see getting rid of the overrages (100 or so unused airframes), and watching costs carefully...

However, what in Netjets EMT planning has shown they have a cognitive process in place for getting new owners to sign up? They have nothing new to sell, and haven't for a few years. Have cut costs to the bone, to the detriment of some owners. Have engaged in a complete Union busting mentality which has reversed the positive atmosphere that once exhisted.... (by the way, this was unneeded. Santuli realized that having good relations helped business immensely. Too bad Sokol couldn't figure that out.)

But my number 1 concern is who they have put in charge. Hansell has zero experience in this field or any other business field. Dichter "left" to pursue other interests.. (more like didn't want to be part of the downfall IMO)... I can't see Buffett caring much about NJA when he keeps someone as inexperienced as Hansell in for even this long. Hopefully his days are numbered..


I'm not trying to be sarcastic. If you have answers let me know. I'm on the outside looking in. and will be for a very long time it appears. Maybe forever if the EMT can't turn it around.

 

[G4dude]

I agree it is ridiculuous to purposely shrink a company......I can see getting rid of the overrages (100 or so unused airframes), and watching costs carefully...

However, what in Netjets EMT planning has shown they have a cognitive process in place for getting new owners to sign up? They have nothing new to sell, and haven't for a few years. Have cut costs to the bone, to the detriment of some owners. Have engaged in a complete Union busting mentality which has reversed the positive atmosphere that once exhisted.... (by the way, this was unneeded. Santuli realized that having good relations helped business immensely. Too bad Sokol couldn't figure that out.)

But my number 1 concern is who they have put in charge. Hansell has zero experience in this field or any other business field. Dichter "left" to pursue other interests.. (more like didn't want to be part of the downfall IMO)... I can't see Buffett caring much about NJA when he keeps someone as inexperienced as Hansell in for even this long. Hopefully his days are numbered..


I'm not trying to be sarcastic. If you have answers let me know. I'm on the outside looking in. and will be for a very long time it appears. Maybe forever if the EMT can't turn it around.

The reason the "shrinking the company" strategy seems so bizarre is that it IS exactly that: bizarre. That is why the company is NOT doing it. They are streamlining the company so we can stay profitable during economic hard times, and will expand it as the market dictates. Assertions to the contrary are why Luthi has presided over and contributed to the dissolution of two companies in his checkered Union career. He is wrong, and probably knows he is wrong, but feels the troops need stirring up. It is all about him and his status as The Leader. Well, I have news for him, I don't need or want a Leader.

 

[G4dude]

I think there is important point you are missing..... NJA managment has no intention of growing. They are in a permanent shrink mode. Probably instructed to do so right from the top brass at BHK..

Hope I am wrong

I believe you are wrong. I believe we will start growing when the economy does, and you will hopefully be brought back if you want to come back. I would welcome seeing you in the famous Blue Uniform again. (although you would have to introduce yourself, as I don't actually know you.

 

[gret]

I agree it is ridiculuous to purposely shrink a company......I can see getting rid of the overrages (100 or so unused airframes), and watching costs carefully...

However, what in Netjets EMT planning has shown they have a cognitive process in place for getting new owners to sign up? They have nothing new to sell, and haven't for a few years. Have cut costs to the bone, to the detriment of some owners. Have engaged in a complete Union busting mentality which has reversed the positive atmosphere that once exhisted.... (by the way, this was unneeded. Santuli realized that having good relations helped business immensely. Too bad Sokol couldn't figure that out.)

But my number 1 concern is who they have put in charge. Hansell has zero experience in this field or any other business field. Dichter "left" to pursue other interests.. (more like didn't want to be part of the downfall IMO)... I can't see Buffett caring much about NJA when he keeps someone as inexperienced as Hansell in for even this long. Hopefully his days are numbered..


I'm not trying to be sarcastic. If you have answers let me know. I'm on the outside looking in. and will be for a very long time it appears. Maybe forever if the EMT can't turn it around.

Reading between the lines, the issue is that they are not deliberately shrinking the company, they just aren't growing because of poor execution. In other words, mgmt is lousy...

Don't know anything about the CEO, but two other very senior guys are definitely zeros based on first hand experience. One had a troubled career prior to joining the company (it showed) and the other appeared to lack the basics of being a man. Their fleet management strategy discussion was strange and left one wondering what were they thinking. No clue whatsoever as to what the perception was of the company and their knowledge of the industry was superficial.

Has the company added any new aircraft (forget future deliveries) to the fleet since 2008? If so, they have kept it a secret. Alienating their legacy aircraft manufacturers didn't seem like a good move. If they wanted to shrink the fleet, why didn't they go to Hawker and trade in three old 800's and a little cash for a new 900? Hawker would have done it and so would Gulfstream and Cessna. They would have had friends for life and it would have been a good PR move rather than buying foreign government subsidized aircraft from Embraer and Bombardier.

 

[gret]

I believe you are wrong. I believe we will start growing when the economy does, and you will hopefully be brought back if you want to come back. I would welcome seeing you in the famous Blue Uniform again. (although you would have to introduce yourself, as I don't actually know you.

This would be a logical theory, but I don't believe management can pull it off once the economy does recover. The concept, and the company, have taken a massive blow to their reputations and they don't have a "face" in management that can restore it.

The entire industry is lacking leadership compared to year's past. In the 1990's and early 2000's, most people in the industry knew who ran Gulfstream, Bombardier, Jet Aviation, NetJets, Signature, Flightsafety, etc. Can you name any of these CEOs today other than for the company you work for? This lack of visible leadership is harmful to the industry and creates a an oprtunity to the company that brings in a star. Back in the day, that may have been Gordon Bethune...today is anybody's guess.