Is being a pilot at a regional like being Tom Cruise in Top Gun?

[FL000]

A friend of mine just got a job flying a citation excel. He has about 1800 hours. Started him at 45K

not a bad gig if you want to spent your life hooked to a pager and retire making 60k.

 

[EagleRJ]

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rn6d-hnd/people/kelly_mcgillis.jpg

Hot, (although a long time ago)

Still not bad at almost 50. Kelly_McGillis

She owns a bar in Key West now!

 

[erj-145mech]

It's just like top gun. Just the other day, I turned to my F.O. (Maverick) and said "You still have the number for that truck driving school we saw on TV?" He turned back and said "I don't like you cause your dangerous." That's right... I am dangerous.

Try this, Iceman, the later years:

http://www.usna.edu/FlyNavy/Squadron%20Photos%20Archive.htm

its on the left at the bottom of the page.

 

[FN FAL]

Can't sit back and relax, can't get a bite to eat, can't watch a movie, can't do anything but sit there and be ready to go at a moments notice. Flying corporate once, I missed lunch and dinner because for six hours the passengers were "just a few minutes away".

When I flew 135 pax, I had this regular customer, a lawyer chick. She was notorious for telling you a time and then coming back hours after that. One trip she says, "Don't bother getting lunch, I'll be back by one!"

Her cab wasn't out of the parking lot and I was already grabbing the crew car and heading to lunch on the company credit card. About two weeks later, the owner of the FBO was pissing and moaning about the $25.00 bowl of chili and hamburger he had to bill the client.

Sometimes you just gotta say screw em.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I used to fly corporate before moving onto a small regional. Had a chance to do a 121 charter the other day and it brought back memories of the worst part of corporate flying - waiting around the FBO for the perpetually late passengers.

Can't sit back and relax, can't get a bite to eat, can't watch a movie, can't do anything but sit there and be ready to go at a moments notice. Flying corporate once, I missed lunch and dinner because for six hours the passengers were "just a few minutes away". Didn't want to run out to grab something, didn't want to order something, and the company didn't want to order crew meals all becuase the passengers would be there in a "few minutes" and wanted us ready to go. Two hours of waiting the other day killed any desire to return to that side of aviation because in my experience waiting was the norm, not the exception. In 121, if the passengers are not there on time, tough, they get left behind.

One other benefit to airlines - even the most crappy regionals - not having to clean up someone elses sh!t. Doing lavs was such a nasty job.

Reading this post sure brought back memories for me. Thanks for the reminder...makes me even more content with being a "regional puke".

 

[CapnVegetto]

1. It makes a difference (which you can admittedly make up for if you're making more money) if you can invest in your 401k in such a way as it reduces your taxable income. Don't know that you can do that on your own.

2. My per diem is better than when I worked at a 135 company.

3. If you're junior anywhere, even at a small 135 company, it's likely you'll be screwed by scheduling. This industry is as much a lifestlye as it is a job, like it or not.

4. See #3.

5. At least I have some kind of protection. How's it work at a charter/135/part 91/etc place when the boss takes a dislike to you due to a personality conflict or just playing favorites? What's your protection there? Company wants me to do something outside the contract, well I have an alternative or at least some recourse.

6. Seniority list: Your quality of life improves as you're at the company longer. You get the chance to upgrade when you're number's up, not when your chief pilot decides based on politics/buddy system/nepotism/etc. Slow upgrade can be anywhere, not just at a regional, just depends on your company's health, attrition and expansion.

7. Pass benefits are great. My family and I can travel very cheaply as long as we're saavy about flying standby. I can jumpseat for free. How many $59 tickets are there? A lot less than you think, and for not a lot of routes, and bought well in advance etc.

Not everything's great, not everything's better, but in my case the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

1. Roth IRA's No taxes when I pull it out. Those airline pensions are lookin' real good right now. No way management would renig on those.

2. No per diem. I have a credit card. When I want a $30 dollar steak dinner, I swipe it. When I want a McNugget meal, I swipe it. I've run up a $100 bar tab and not a word said to me.

3. I'm the most junior captain at a small 135 company. I NEVER get screwed. All trips are given on a rotational basis, as are ASAP callouts.

4. See #3

5. Labor law. You can't fire someone for looking at you wrong.....that's called wrongful termination. We don't have a contract. Most other industries in this country don't have contracts. We work with managment and they help us out when they can. If they ask me to do something outside the regs I say no. I don't grieve, or BS, I just say no. They fire me, I call the feds, and the slimiest shyster lawyer I can find. I have a problem, I go to the boss's office and we sit down and work it out. I don't file a grievence and wait for years to have it resolved.

6. Seniority list & union. Designed specifically to protect the dumbest most inept motherf-ckers there. You get hired, don't wreck or kill anybody for about 2 to 4 years, you upgrade. You could be the dumbest, stupidest, $hittiest pilot at the company, but your ability has no bearing on it......your number is up, so you upgrade. Meanwhile, every other business in the universe promotes based on ability. ALPA guys love to spout off about the 'chief pilots' buddies' and crap like that, but I don't see a problem anywhere else. Works fine at CitationShares. Works fine where my father has worked for 30 years.

7. I had pass benefits too. But where the hell am I going to go for my 2 days off after flying 25 hours on 4 14 hour days in a row? All I want to do is sit on my a$$ for my days off. I'm tired. The whole time I had benefits, I never used them for anything other than going to work. Never had the time or money. Not worth it. Of course, it was Mesa, but even the best lines were $hitty. All of them ended at 10pm and began at 5 am. My 3 days off were more like 1 and 3/4.

Just my $.02.

 

[islandhopper]

Tommy Lee wanted to barrel roll my friends learjet. Some 135 charter out of Van Nuys. A lot of sh!t goes on at 135 operatrors. But hell i'd do that before I ever went back to YV.

1. Roth IRA's No taxes when I pull it out. Those airline pensions are lookin' real good right now. No way management would renig on those.

2. No per diem. I have a credit card. When I want a $30 dollar steak dinner, I swipe it. When I want a McNugget meal, I swipe it. I've run up a $100 bar tab and not a word said to me.

3. I'm the most junior captain at a small 135 company. I NEVER get screwed. All trips are given on a rotational basis, as are ASAP callouts.

4. See #3

5. Labor law. You can't fire someone for looking at you wrong.....that's called wrongful termination. We don't have a contract. Most other industries in this country don't have contracts. We work with managment and they help us out when they can. If they ask me to do something outside the regs I say no. I don't grieve, or BS, I just say no. They fire me, I call the feds, and the slimiest shyster lawyer I can find. I have a problem, I go to the boss's office and we sit down and work it out. I don't file a grievence and wait for years to have it resolved.

6. Seniority list & union. Designed specifically to protect the dumbest most inept motherf-ckers there. You get hired, don't wreck or kill anybody for about 2 to 4 years, you upgrade. You could be the dumbest, stupidest, $hittiest pilot at the company, but your ability has no bearing on it......your number is up, so you upgrade. Meanwhile, every other business in the universe promotes based on ability. ALPA guys love to spout off about the 'chief pilots' buddies' and crap like that, but I don't see a problem anywhere else. Works fine at CitationShares. Works fine where my father has worked for 30 years.

7. I had pass benefits too. But where the hell am I going to go for my 2 days off after flying 25 hours on 4 14 hour days in a row? All I want to do is sit on my a$$ for my days off. I'm tired. The whole time I had benefits, I never used them for anything other than going to work. Never had the time or money. Not worth it. Of course, it was Mesa, but even the best lines were $hitty. All of them ended at 10pm and began at 5 am. My 3 days off were more like 1 and 3/4.

Just my $.02.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

6. Seniority list & union. Designed specifically to protect the dumbest most inept motherf-ckers there. You get hired, don't wreck or kill anybody for about 2 to 4 years, you upgrade. You could be the dumbest, stupidest, $hittiest pilot at the company, but your ability has no bearing on it......your number is up, so you upgrade. Meanwhile, every other business in the universe promotes based on ability. ALPA guys love to spout off about the 'chief pilots' buddies' and crap like that, but I don't see a problem anywhere else. Works fine at CitationShares. Works fine where my father has worked for 30 years.

Sorry, I flew corporate for almost 4 years and I have to disagree. When most 91/135 outfits say that upgrade is based on "ability and performance" what that really means is who kisses the most arse will get upgraded first. The first ones to upgrade are the ones that spend their days off sweeping the hangar floors and cleaning airplanes. Yes, there are some exceptions, like CitationShares. Perhaps this doesn't go on at your specific company, or maybe you were the guy that was mopping the floors, but it DOES happen and it is quite common in corporate aviation. So, the story holds true, you could be the "dumbest, stupidest, $hittiest pilot at the company, but your ability has no bearing on it..". Sorry, I'm not much into arse kissing, so I'll take my upgrade based on seniority.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Sorry, I flew corporate for almost 4 years and I have to disagree. When most 91/135 outfits say that upgrade is based on "ability and performance" what that really means is who kisses the most arse will get upgraded first. The first ones to upgrade are the ones that spend their days off sweeping the hangar floors and cleaning airplanes. Yes, there are some exceptions, like CitationShares. Perhaps this doesn't go on at your specific company, or maybe you were the guy that was mopping the floors, but it DOES happen and it is quite common in corporate aviation. So, the story holds true, you could be the "dumbest, stupidest, $hittiest pilot at the company, but your ability has no bearing on it..". Sorry, I'm not much into arse kissing, so I'll take my upgrade based on seniority.

I've flown corporate for more than 6 years now, and I've NEVER seen what you're talking about. I've never mopped a hangar floor, washed an airplane, or kissed arse. When you have the quals, if you do a good job, you move up. I saw a senior copilot at my first company passed over twice for upgrade because he was lazy, called in sick all the time, was hard to get a hold of, very unreliable.....basically did a bad job. He was a fine pilot, but at an airline all this would be irrelavant. If I were his boss at some office, he would NOT get a promotion because of the way he did his job. You can be the laziest, most pathetic, worthless excuse of a copilot at an airline, but when your number's up.......there you go. Sure there are companies where kissing arse gets you ahead, but that's life. There are twice as many where kissing arse won't get you anywhere. Just like there are lots of stupid, brainless retards sitting in the left seat of airliners. Any way you cut it there is going to be a$$holes that get through the system. I personally think airlines will always suck simply because you are unable to make a lateral move if the company starts treating you like crap because of the seniority system. IMHO, upgrades should be based on a combination of the two.....seniority and merit. Performance evaluations by captains reviewed by an impartial board (with NO NAMES on the paperwork) or something like that. I just flew with way too many brainless douchebags to place any trust in the seniority system.

 

[BLing]

Yeah, try pass traveling to Europe and back with your spouse, and see what happens when you get on and she doesn't. Do you leave her in Europe? (maybe)

Never had any problems doing that. Ive done it with my girl a few times. The last time I did it was 3 weeks ago. The flights we get on are usually oversold. I guess I am lucky and superior to all that dare to try!

 

[FL000]

You can be the laziest, most pathetic, worthless excuse of a copilot at an airline, but when your number's up.......there you go.

Not necessarily. That person would be lucky to have made it through the hiring process, but if he did, the "system" would catch up to him before to long. I know that some have slipped through the cracks, but I have faith in Karma.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Not necessarily. That person would be lucky to have made it through the hiring process, but if he did, the "system" would catch up to him before to long. I know that some have slipped through the cracks, but I have faith in Karma.

Then how do you explain all the Riddle FO's? PFT guys?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Then how do you explain all the Riddle FO's? PFT guys?

I've met many more tools flying corporate than I have met at my airline. Thats not to say that all corporate pilots are tools, but most of the ones I have met don't seem to work so well in a crew environment.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I've met many more tools flying corporate than I have met at my airline. Thats not to say that all corporate pilots are tools, but most of the ones I have met don't seem to work so well in a crew environment.

I've met quite a few douchebags also. The guys I met at the airlines were decent guys, but very incompetent pilots. Of course, this was at the regional level. You and I just might've had a run of bad luck.

 

[av8er2]

It is a blast at first. Then the schedule, pay and no life or control over your life really sucks.

Flying a jet is only fun for a while then it becomes a job. I know it is hard for new pilots to see this but it will happen.

Flying is fun, the airlines turn it into no fun!!!

 

[jehtplane]

1. 6. Seniority list & union. Designed specifically to protect the dumbest most inept motherf-ckers there. You get hired, don't wreck or kill anybody for about 2 to 4 years, you upgrade. You could be the dumbest, stupidest, $hittiest pilot at the company, but your ability has no bearing on it......your number is up, so you upgrade. Meanwhile, every other business in the universe promotes based on ability. ALPA guys love to spout off about the 'chief pilots' buddies' and crap like that, but I don't see a problem anywhere else. Works fine at CitationShares. Works fine where my father has worked for 30 years.

Just my $.02.

6. So every non airline captain should be a captain? And if you really believe that every business promotes based on ability, you really don't know much about the real world!

 

[jehtplane]

I've met quite a few douchebags also. The guys I met at the airlines were decent guys, but very incompetent pilots. Of course, this was at the regional level. You and I just might've had a run of bad luck.

Yep, you are more ignorant than I originally thought!

 

[singlespeed]

At my old corp. job we moped floors, cleaned hangers, $hitters, aircraft, painted floors, did plumbing, worked on budget stuff, hired people and fired people. I had recently heard that the guys now have to detail the boots after a 14-16 hr duty day and vacuum out the inside of the aircraft.

Spend all day at places like HYS, SLN, GLD, K71, MCK, GCK, PTS, PTT, and if you’re lucky you can go to ICT and have a computer to log on with or a couch to sleep on.

Have a company paid cell phone so we can call when we want especially after you got in at 2am from flying and they call you at 8am to tell you about a flight in 2 weeks.

I could go on and on but I want to watch football. If you have a good corp. job keep it. But remember this, sometimes a good flight gets departments downsize. This just happened to a friend of mine. He had a decent schedule 4 on 3 off. The on he was away from home and the off he sometimes had to go into the office.

 

[CapnVegetto]

6. So every non airline captain should be a captain? And if you really believe that every business promotes based on ability, you really don't know much about the real world!

I've been out in the real world for a while now kid. And nowhere in my entire post did I use the word EVERY. As a matter of fact, I remember using an example of how jackoffs slip through the system EVERYWHERE, not just airlines or corporate.

I guess the ability to read isn't a part of your regional's hiring prerequisites.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Yep, you are more ignorant than I originally thought!

Wow, I'm really reeling from that answer. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

 

[CapnVegetto]

At my old corp. job we moped floors, cleaned hangers, $hitters, aircraft, painted floors, did plumbing, worked on budget stuff, hired people and fired people. I had recently heard that the guys now have to detail the boots after a 14-16 hr duty day and vacuum out the inside of the aircraft.

Spend all day at places like HYS, SLN, GLD, K71, MCK, GCK, PTS, PTT, and if you’re lucky you can go to ICT and have a computer to log on with or a couch to sleep on.

Have a company paid cell phone so we can call when we want especially after you got in at 2am from flying and they call you at 8am to tell you about a flight in 2 weeks.

I could go on and on but I want to watch football. If you have a good corp. job keep it. But remember this, sometimes a good flight gets departments downsize. This just happened to a friend of mine. He had a decent schedule 4 on 3 off. The on he was away from home and the off he sometimes had to go into the office.

There are crappy corporate jobs and there are good ones.....ask anyone. There are good and bad things about any job. My first 91 job, I was responsible for cleaning the interior of the plane and the brightwork. It's part of the job. If you think you're over cleaning, then now you know why many corporate operators shy away from hiring airline guys. Ask all the JBlue guys if they mind helping pick up the cabin after a flight. Are you going to refuse a JB interview because of that? It's called taking pride in your aircraft and job.....and helping out the team. At my current job it's not my responsiblity to clean, it's the line guys'. But I still help them out after a flight if I'm not too tired. Why? Because I'm part of the team.

Corporate flight departments downsize, sure. But airlines cut pay, furlough, and kill pensions. Pick your poison. Any corporate job that expects you to show up at an office isn't the norm. Don't take the job if you don't want it!

There are crappy corporate jobs where you pay your dues just like there are crappy regional airline jobs where you pay your dues. It's the same either way. But find the right job, you'll pinch yourself every day b/c of how good you have it.....and that goes for either part of it.

 

[FlyChicaga]

I'd say that moreso than Top Gun, being a pilot at a regional is like being the fat guy in Deliverance.

 

[RJP]

The only things I miss about corporate are the travel to exotic locales (EWR excluded), the corporate credit card and the money. I much prefer knowing when my days off are and not having to worry each time the phone rings.

 

[Winged Sig 599]

It is EXACTLY like Top Gun. Just today I got called into the Chief Pilots Office, and he said he didn't like me because I was dangerous. I patted him on the shoulder and said that's right bet your a$$ I'm dangerous. I smiled, lurched in his face, put on my sweet ray-bans and went out to fly my RJ.

 

[Superpilot92]

I've met quite a few douchebags also. The guys I met at the airlines were decent guys, but very incompetent pilots. Of course, this was at the regional level. You and I just might've had a run of bad luck.

Remind us where you flew at, At the Regional level?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Remind us where you flew at, At the Regional level?

Take a look at my a/c types and connect the dots. Not too hard to figure out.

 

[Superpilot92]

I know where you worked and you talk like every regional is like mesa. 4 14 hour duty days-that does suck and you know what i have and never will see that here. You choose where you work you took the job at mesa.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Exactly why I quit. 'Course when I took the job I didn't know any better. Nobody does. I was faced with moving out of the country or taking a job there. I took the latter. If I had gone to XJET or $hitty taco I might still be there. But I've always been happier at a good corporate job. I thought that having a schedule, even a crappy one, would make me happier. BUUUUZZZZZ!!! WRONG!!! I always kind of knew that I would be happier in corporate, but it took me trying the airlines one time just to say I've done it. Would things have been different if I had gone to another regional? I doubt it. I'm just too dam-n lazy to be an airline pilot. I worked about 10 whole days in September. That's what I like. And after seeing the state of the industry, and how much worse it had gotten, that was just the icing on the cake for me. No more $300K a year DC-10 captain job at the end of the rainbow. Deregulation was the worst thing to ever happen to the average airline pilot.

 

[coolyokeluke]

CapnVegetto,
You and I had opposite experiences. I worked for two really crappy charter companies, and now I work for a really good regional. You came from Mesa and seem to have found a great charter/corporate/whatever job. From my personal experience I think that those are rare, but good for you for getting one.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Exactly why I quit. 'Course when I took the job I didn't know any better. Nobody does. I was faced with moving out of the country or taking a job there. I took the latter. If I had gone to XJET or $hitty taco I might still be there. But I've always been happier at a good corporate job. I thought that having a schedule, even a crappy one, would make me happier. BUUUUZZZZZ!!! WRONG!!! I always kind of knew that I would be happier in corporate, but it took me trying the airlines one time just to say I've done it. Would things have been different if I had gone to another regional? I doubt it. I'm just too dam-n lazy to be an airline pilot. I worked about 10 whole days in September. That's what I like. And after seeing the state of the industry, and how much worse it had gotten, that was just the icing on the cake for me. No more $300K a year DC-10 captain job at the end of the rainbow. Deregulation was the worst thing to ever happen to the average airline pilot.

I think you know this already, but saying that Mesa is the standard of regional airline jobs just isn't giving justice. I only worked a total of 13 days in September myself. Of course my pay may be lower, but with our trip trading system I have almost complete control of my schedule. When staffing is good like it was in September and has been so far for October I can do almost anything that I want with it. I'm also a single guy that loves to travel, so the ability to get long stretches of SOLID days off (not on call) and use my travel passes to go all over the world on my terms just can't be matched by most corporate jobs. Again, its all about perspective.