Is ALPA Embarrassed?

[slick1]

So did AAG management catch ALPA asleep at the wheel with the PSA deal?

And has ALPA finally awakened, (thanks to the efforts of the Eagle MEC and the ill-timed soul cleansings of Jeff Smisek and Rev. Bedford)? Does ALPA realize that they now hold the power, after a decade of being pushed around, stalled, stonewalled, delayed, ignored, and abused by management and the bankruptcy courts?

Has ALPA finally realized that there will be no other airline capable of staffing a large order of larger regional jets at concessionary rates,.....UNLESS ALPA ALLOWS IT???

And more importantly, has AAG management overplayed their hand with the PSA deal and *embarrassed* ALPA and will AAG management pay a price for embarrassing ALPA so badly in the PSA deal?

In my opinion, like the Japanese in WWII, AAG management may have won the first battle (PSA),......but they will now lose the war, (unless ALPA accepts defeat again).

To ALPA, IBT, and any other regional airline union,......you now hold the power. Never forget how the management has treated you over the past 12 years.

 

[JetMonkey]

This has proven to everyone that the law of supply and demand is greater than even SJS.

 

[knightflyer]

Which ALPA?

 

[Jim]

There is no reason for ALPA National to be embarrassed. PSA ALPA and the PSA pilot group might be feeling a little ill but they elected their own MEC, selected their own negotiators and approved their own contract. They had use of ALPA National resources and advise, but everything that happened PSA ALPA (and by extension PSA pilots) controlled and approved. If it's not good, it's solely their responsibility.

People need to get over blaming ALPA National for all their problems and start looking in the mirror.

 

[rtmcfi]

There is no reason for ALPA National to be embarrassed. PSA ALPA and the PSA pilot group might be feeling a little ill but they elected their own MEC, selected their own negotiators and approved their own contract. They had use of ALPA National resources and advise, but everything that happened PSA ALPA (and by extension PSA pilots) controlled and approved. If it's not good, it's solely their responsibility.

People need to get over blaming ALPA National for all their problems and start looking in the mirror.

Hmmm, did anyone from ALPA national sign off on that toilet paper?

 

[Jim]

Hmmm, did anyone from ALPA national sign off on that toilet paper?

Only after PSA pilots approved it.

 

[slick1]

So in your mind, individual pilot groups, (i.e. PSA, Endeavor, GoJet, etc.) bear the responsibility for furthering the interests and well-being of the regional pilot group,.........but ALPA National doesn't.

Got it.

 

[Jim]

So in your mind, individual pilot groups, (i.e. PSA, Endeavor, GoJet, etc.) bear the responsibility for furthering the interests and well-being of the regional pilot group,.........but ALPA National doesn't.

Got it.

ALPA National can't force them to accept anything. If the pilot group isn't willing to stand up for themselves, they get what they deserve. So yes, the vast majority of the blame/responsibility rest on the regional pilot themselves. You get what you vote for. Don't want it, don't vote for it. Don't like what is being offered, change your MEC/negotiators.

But I understand, it's easier to just blame ALPA National than to take responsibility for your own actions.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Complaining about a decision that a group of pilots made for themselves is pointless. They decided that was best for them, if you don't like it, dont work there.

 

[rtmcfi]

ALPA National can't force them to accept anything. If the pilot group isn't willing to stand up for themselves, they get what they deserve. So yes, the vast majority of the blame/responsibility rest on the regional pilot themselves. You get what you vote for. Don't want it, don't vote for it. Don't like what is being offered, change your MEC/negotiators.

But I understand, it's easier to just blame ALPA National than to take responsibility for your own actions.

Who forced ALPA national to sign? Shouldn't ALPA national provide some semblance of leadership?

 

[Jim]

Who forced ALPA national to sign? Shouldn't ALPA national provide some semblance of leadership?

Aren't regional pilots adult professionals capable of making mature decisions about things affecting their future? The pilots wanted it and it did not violate any ALPA rules or policies. What right did ALPA National have to refuse to sign and disregard the will of the PSA pilots?

Once again we are back to the root issue m- being responsible for your own actions.

 

[slick1]

Jim, I'm just sayin' that there should be some "leadership" from the top, (aka: ALPA National).

While I think PSA and Endeavor deserve their share of the blame for accepting concessionary contracts in this environment, I also think that ALPA bears an equal amount of blame,....if not more.

We need leadership and resolve for the entire regional pilot group,....FROM THE TOP!!! And while I admire Eagle MEC and XJT pilots for taking a stand,...... Eagle MEC and XJT ain't "the top".

ALPA needs to recognize the power that the regional pilots now have and cohesively guide us toward making strides for the entire regional pilot group.

Or perhaps all the other regional airlines should simply ask Eagle MEC and XJT pilots to represent them! At lease Eagle MEC and XJT pilots have demonstrated that they understand the pilot shortage issue and have demonstrated that THEY have some stones!

 

[rtmcfi]

Aren't regional pilots adult professionals capable of making mature decisions about things affecting their future? The pilots wanted it and it did not violate any ALPA rules or policies. What right did ALPA National have to refuse to sign and disregard the will of the PSA pilots?

Once again we are back to the root issue m- being responsible for your own actions.

ALPA national needs to be responsible for their own actions, or inactions as the case may be. Nobody put a gun to nationals head. They signed off on a contract that hurts pilots at every airline. Just because it didn't violate rules or policies does not mean it needs to be signed. This has been judicially tested. PSA dropped the ball, and ALPA national had the opportunity to recover it, but chose not to. Please don't mistake my disdain for ALPA national as a defense of PSA pilots, because it is not. Those guys screwed everyone, and I hope it haunts them. That said, a little leadership from national could have gone a long way. Remember CCAir?

 

[Quack]

What's the point of having a national union that represents a majority of the pilots in the US when a select few from within the group (ie PSA) ruin it for everyone else. The national union is just as responsible for this travesty as PSA pilots are for not shooting that piece of crap TA down. If there's no leadership from the top then what's the point of a national union...just bring it in house.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Jim, I'm just sayin' that there should be some "leadership" from the top, (aka: ALPA National).

While I think PSA and Endeavor deserve their share of the blame for accepting concessionary contracts in this environment, I also think that ALPA bears an equal amount of blame,....if not more.

We need leadership and resolve for the entire regional pilot group,....FROM THE TOP!!! And while I admire Eagle MEC and XJT pilots for taking a stand,...... Eagle MEC and XJT ain't "the top".

ALPA needs to recognize the power that the regional pilots now have and cohesively guide us toward making strides for the entire regional pilot group.

Or perhaps all the other regional airlines should simply ask Eagle MEC and XJT pilots to represent them! At lease Eagle MEC and XJT pilots have demonstrated that they understand the pilot shortage issue and have demonstrated that THEY have some stones!

Put your big boy pants on and sack up, you wonder why you are in the pickle you are in, look in the mirror. Going through life fat, drunk and stupid is a choice, now all you gotta do is start drinking.

 

[slick1]

Put your big boy pants on and sack up, you wonder why you are in the pickle you are in, look in the mirror. Going through life fat, drunk and stupid is a choice, now all you gotta do is start drinking.

It's a little early to be that drunk, isn't it?

I'm sure your reply meant something terribly cogent, in your mind. But I gotta be honest, I have NO IDEA what you're trying to say.

 

[Golden Falcon]

there should be a standardized/uniform minimum standard for any contract

 

[A-10_JetMech]

Unions=dues money in their pockets=don't give a s.. about you=look out for yourself.

 

[wms]

there should be a standardized/uniform minimum standard for any contract

The uniform standard at our airline is we have to wear the coat from 1nov-28feb. But we don't have to wear hats.

 

[Jim]

The uniform standard at our airline is we have to wear the coat from 1nov-28feb. But we don't have to wear hats.

Same at my airline except we're supposed to wear our hats. We just don't.

 

[zasca]

ALPA is an association of unions. Having Moak "not sign something" is kind of a joke. If he didn't, PSA pilots could just ignore him and vote to leave the association. It would have to be a truly outrageous document for him not to sign (like the perception of possible vote tampering or gross misinformation).

On the other hand. National DOES provide "expert" advice and resources to the unions, and they severely dropped the ball on this one. That or the PSA MEC failed to grasp the shifting winds in the cheap pilot market, and completely disregarded the theory of pattern bargaining. Also, after speaking to Moak personally, I don't think he thinks that strategy applies to lowly RJ jobs... Take what you can get or get shut down is what came to mind at the time.

 

[slick1]

[Quote: On the other hand. National DOES provide "expert" advice and resources to the unions, and they severely dropped the ball on this one. That or the PSA MEC failed to grasp the shifting winds in the cheap pilot market, and completely disregarded the theory of pattern bargaining. QUOTE]
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That was kinda what my original point. ALPA National should provide expert advice and resources, but should ALSO do their best to prevent individual MECs and pilot groups from making wrong decisions, for themselves as well as the regional pilot group as a whole. And when I saw no efforts on the part of ALPA National to prevent the PSA and Endeavor mistakes from happening,...I could only assume that they were asleep at the wheel. And for that, ALPA National should be embarrassed.

And because American Airlines Group managed to (apparently with very little effort), embarrass ALPA National I'm hoping that ALPA will gain a good deal of revenge on American Airlines Groups (and others) in future deals,.....especially when the pilot groups now have the power!

We should all take a clue from the fact that regional airline management has been stonewalling the pilot groups in contract talks FOR YEARS, (as many as 8 years, in the case of RAH!), but now all of the regional airlines are anxious to push-through new collective bargaining agreements,.....AT THE SAME TIME! Why do you think that is?!?!?! Why have the management teams at PSA, Republic, SkyWest, ExpressJet, Eagle, Endeavor, and Silver all sought to secure new pilot labor deals in the last 6 months,.....after years of stonewalling?

 

[zasca]

Last chance to get a cheap labor contract before the bottom completely falls out

 

[Freebrd]

Last chance to get a cheap labor contract before the bottom completely falls out

Or in the case of LASA & LXJT just keep our current agreements. Love me some Vac Low!

BTW I must have missed the memo about mgt taking a pay cut to help out.