Is $10K enough for the Former America West pilots?

[Bringupthebird]

The US pilots are in a situation much more similar to what Frontier faced with Southwest that what APA faced with AA. Don't overestimate your ability to craft the outcome through emotional votes.

Nope, the only vote you can make, once you fully realize the irreparable harm done by USAPA, is YES. The east pilots are 100% to blame for all US pilots being in this weak position and should be reminded of it perpetually.

 

[vetrider]

The US pilots are in a situation much more similar to what Frontier faced with Southwest that what APA faced with AA. Don't overestimate your ability to craft the outcome through emotional votes.

Nope, the only vote you can make, once you fully realize the irreparable harm done by USAPA, is YES. The east pilots are 100% to blame for all US pilots being in this weak position and should be reminded of it perpetually.

I'm under no illusion of getting another mou at all if it's voted down, much less a better one. I think status quo until we are wards of the APA(if this deal happens at all) is better for us.

Under this mou a certain percentage will get the good out of it without shooting themselves in the foot, not so for the rest of us. All this mou does is give LCC more flexibility, to our detriment, than it currently has.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'm under no illusion of getting another mou at all if it's voted down, much less a better one. I think status quo until we are wards of the APA(if this deal happens at all) is better for us.

Under this mou a certain percentage will get the good out of it without shooting themselves in the foot, not so for the rest of us. All this mou does is give LCC more flexibility, to our detriment, than it currently has.

So you'll trade the better of two lousy outcomes for a chance to pound your chest and say "See, we can vote No, too!"

 

[Carl S.]

Let my Daddy vote, let my Daddy vote..... Is this why the East reps. let this turd out to vote with a no approval? CoC for 10k.... No Gold Standard of DOH as item number one???? Looks like money talks and the AFO club is losing their base....West is the swing vote and I am leaning towards no just so LOA 93 rates burn some more....Karma or something close to it.

 

[fam62c]

If Parker wants a merger bad enough you should be able to get a no furlough agreement for all the groups. Also, it's not about 10K, the wage improvements should add up to a lot more than that. Get a new deal, get the merger done, put in fences so nobody goes backwards, sit back and watch the massive retirements at East and American move everybody up the list quickly. The other option is to just say no to everything forever and get nothing. If you do this you won't have to worry about scope, it will be other airlines that take your flying and put your company out of business, the best scope clause in the world can't stop your competitors because they don't have to play by your rules. The USAirways East pilots certainly know that by now.

If this merger is done correctly the combined carrier can be one of the powerhouses of the industry and provide a good future for the pilots. Realistically, given their hub structure and the competitive environment what kind of future does Airways have on it's own competing against giants?

 

[vetrider]

So you'll trade the better of two lousy outcomes for a chance to pound your chest and say "See, we can vote No, too!"

Pounding a chest has nothing to do with it. I don't think this mou helps west pilots in the interim, in fact for many I think it will hurt them.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Pounding a chest has nothing to do with it. I don't think this mou helps west pilots in the interim, in fact for many I think it will hurt them.

How will the west pilots fare without any formal protections? You are not choosing between a bad agreement and a better agreement. You are choosing between a lifejacket and meat-flavored swim trunks in shark infested waters.

BTW, USAPA wanted sharks as pets to make them look tough.

 

[Freebrd]

Can you give us some examples of what they said?


Bye Bye---General Lee

dey say JennyLeigh is a PUTZ AND a sellout!

 

[Flybywire44]

Wrong. Can you dismiss a divorce settlement? No, no you can't. Same with the NIC AWARD. It will follow you. Enjoy it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why so Poo-poo General?

 

[redflyer65]

What will happen with the Nicelau award?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Dork.

 

[General Lee]

Dork.

WHO CARES? You obviously do. I think NIC should have done your arbitration with AT, but that didn't happen. NIIIICE! Oh sorry, NIIIIIC. You are such a jealous cheeseball.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Why so Poo-poo General?

No, I just think the East guys are wheenies for not accepting arbitration they helped sign up for. If you decided to do something that is binding, then you need to abide by the decision. It's like gambling. If you lose in poker at a casino, do you just take your money back and run? No. Arbitration is a gamble, and the East guys just didn't like the result. That award will follow them, and eventually be awarded, and the APA guys know it too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

The US pilots are in a situation much more similar to what Frontier faced with Southwest that what APA faced with AA. Don't overestimate your ability to craft the outcome through emotional votes.

Nope, the only vote you can make, once you fully realize the irreparable harm done by USAPA, is YES. The east pilots are 100% to blame for all US pilots being in this weak position and should be reminded of it perpetually.

Emotional is when pilots fixate on the past internal union dispute rather than on what the company wants to do going forward. If your vote feels good because you hope it hurts the other pilot group (regardless of how bad it also hurts you) then you are emotional.

The fact is the MOU hurts all of us. It is full of concessions, even though we are not in bankruptcy.
--The furlough protection last less than two years.
-- He can reduce the fleet by 15% per year for narrow body and 20% for wide body
-- he can code share on any carrier that code shares with AA
-- he has no limit to the E-190s he can add

Our concessions pay for the APA pensions.... It goes on and on. We are not in bankruptcy. Why should we agree to more concessions?

DUI promises there will be over a billion dollars of profit gained by synergies, he better not be relying on more concessions from us to get to that number!

 

[Carl S.]

East pilots have done nothing but harm to West pilots for the last seven years (i.e. RICO, Distance learning payback, no true representation....), so now we forget the past and move forward together for a bright shinny future? The East will vote 60/40 Yes at a minimum on this, the West is the swing vote for a 4000 strong pilot group. If I can return the harm to any AFO ( Post 1986 hire) that is where my voting is going. Revenge feels better than money in my pocket any day and you guys have this day coming since 2005, just wait till APA lubes your DOH dream right where it belongs....

 

[General Lee]

Emotional is when pilots fixate on the past internal union dispute rather than on what the company wants to do going forward. If your vote feels good because you hope it hurts the other pilot group (regardless of how bad it also hurts you) then you are emotional.

The fact is the MOU hurts all of us. It is full of concessions, even though we are not in bankruptcy.
--The furlough protection last less than two years.
-- He can reduce the fleet by 15% per year for narrow body and 20% for wide body
-- he can code share on any carrier that code shares with AA
-- he has no limit to the E-190s he can add

Our concessions pay for the APA pensions.... It goes on and on. We are not in bankruptcy. Why should we agree to more concessions?

DUI promises there will be over a billion dollars of profit gained by synergies, he better not be relying on more concessions from us to get to that number!

No, the other group will feel justification when the SLI is correct, to where it was AWARDED. After that, then you can focus on NOT taking more concessions. First things first. Your EAST group accepted binding arbitration, and you can't escape that. You are right though, any current concessions would go towards paying APA pensions in the future. Don't cave on that. Just fix the SLI part first. Many of you don't seem to care what anyone else thinks, but it really is shameful.


Bye Bye---General Lee