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Is $10K enough for the Former America West pilots?

General Lee

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What will happen with the Nicelau award? Where is Judge Silver anyway? What is up with that? Don't give that up!


Exclusive: US Airways Pilots Mull Merger Contract With $10,000 Bonuses
By Ted Reed 08/23/12 - 12:44 PM EDT



CHARLOTTE, N.C. --TheStreet-- In a crucial step on the road to a potential merger between US Airways and bankrupt American, US Airways pilot leaders are reviewing proposed contract terms agreed to by negotiators for the union and the airline.

The terms, contained in a memorandum of understanding that negotiators approved late Monday, involve a series of sensitive tradeoffs for both sides and face a difficult path before they could take effect.

That path would include backing from the executive board of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association, which is meeting Wednesday in Charlotte to review them; approval by the Allied Pilots Association board, which represents American pilots: a vote by US Airways pilots, inclusion in a final tentative contract and then approval by pilots from both US Airways and American if a merger were to occur.

Negotiating committees for the two pilot unions are scheduled to meet next week to discuss the memorandum.

Among its most important components are signing bonuses approaching $10,000 for each US Airways pilot, furlough protection for all US Airways pilots and abandonment of a "change of control" provision in the existing contract, pilots said in interviews with TheStreet. Also, the amount of flying by both pilot groups could be reduced. The pilots were not authorized to speak publicly on contract maters.


Under the negotiated terms, US Airways pilots would give up the right to "snap back" to sharply higher salaries in the event of a change of control, the pilots said. This item would provide US Airways executives with more flexibility as they seek to craft a merger with American. The $10,000 bonuses would be based on the airline's award of $40 million to USAPA to split up among members. On Thursday, some pilots said in interviews that the amount is insufficient as a return on billions of dollars of wage and pension concessions made by US Airways pilots since a 2004 bankruptcy that enabled a 2005 merger with America West, particularly since US Airways would allocate $100 million to support pension funding for American pilots


Other pilots would welcome the money in addition to the sharply higher pay rates a merger would bring. No one disputes that a merger would provide double-digit pay increases for most US Airways pilots, who are currently paid at a discount to pilots at the big three carriers - American, Delta and United


The memorandum would prohibit furloughs of US Airways pilots, except in extreme "force majeure" conditions, and provides for a pay parity review with Delta and United after three years.


The memorandum would potentially enable downsizing. But it requires that each pilot group retain a domestic block hour rate within 5% of the annual baseline rate and a widebody international rate within 10% of the annual baseline rate. The domestic rates could not be reduced by more than 15% from the same month a year earlier, while the widebody rate cannot be reduced by more than 20% from the same month a year earlier.
"We need assurances we will keep flying the airplanes we bring to the party," said USAPA spokesman James Ray. "We are concerned that historically, in mergers after consolidation, there has been downsizing, and we anticipate this could be the case with this merger as well. If there is a reduction in total flying we want to make sure those reductions are shared with both pilot groups and not disproportionally on our side."

The memorandum contemplates that additional E190 aircraft will be introduced into the fleet and flown by pilots for both airlines. US Airways pilots had worried that all new Embraer 190 jets would be theirs. Instead, E190 flying would be distributed proportionately among the two pilot groups. US Airways pilots would retain Shuttle flying and Phoenix-Hawaii flying. Also, USAPA and APA would provide an integrated seniority list, reached in accordance with the McCaskill-Bond process, within 24 months of signing.

Member approval would mean that the terms of the memorandum would become part of a tentative contract agreement between a new American Airlines and pilots for American and US Airways.
One pilot, who asked not to be named, told The Street that he approves the tradeoffs in the deal. "I'd rather have better pay and furlough protection than to be walking around pounding my chest over having a change of control provision," he said. "People are saying there's going to be stuff we find out later that we wish we didn't know. But some people aren't willing to move forward. There's no perfect contract."
On Wednesday, leaders of the Allied Pilots Association met in Dallas with US Airways executives including CEO Doug Parker, President Scott Kirby and Executive Vice President Elise Eberwein.

"Along with providing an opportunity for the US Airways executives and (newly elected) APA President Keith Wilson to meet one another, this meeting also enabled the APA leadership to engage in a wide-ranging discussion with the US Airways executives about the potential for further industry consolidation," APA said in a message to pilots.
--Written by Ted Reed



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

LearLove

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The baby boomer I flew with this morning was all ready to give up scope for his 10K. 2 trips in a row with a 1%er. Thank god I have a few days off.
 

grog_sit_reserv

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It is not. Our reps voted to not send this pos out for ratification. WD east reps voted to send it out.

Lear, please tell me the east is gonna throw this thing out!
 
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LearLove

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It is not. Our reps voted to not send this pos out for ratification. WD east reps voted to send it out.

Lear, please tell me the east is gonna throw this thing out!

Hope so but judging from 2 of the last 3 CA's I flew with I just may use these days off to fill out the rest of the FDX app.

Seriously, I had to put my left hand in my pocket and tighten the lap belt down to keep my arm from reaching for the crash ax after a few of the things one of them said.
 

General Lee

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Hope so but judging from 2 of the last 3 CA's I flew with I just may use these days off to fill out the rest of the FDX app.

Seriously, I had to put my left hand in my pocket and tighten the lap belt down to keep my arm from reaching for the crash ax after a few of the things one of them said.

Can you give us some examples of what they said?


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Metrojet

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I haven't heard what the "integrated list" to be submitted is - which list?
Because I don't see how a former AWE pilot (some of whom have contributed thousands) could be paid off for an amount of $10,000.

That being said - if the USAPA BPR and APA Mec vote to send some type of agreement out - well as we all know - in a democratic society - majority rules by 50.1%

Metrojet
 

General Lee

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I haven't heard what the "integrated list" to be submitted is - which list?
Because I don't see how a former AWE pilot (some of whom have contributed thousands) could be paid off for an amount of $10,000.

That being said - if the USAPA BPR and APA Mec vote to send some type of agreement out - well as we all know - in a democratic society - majority rules by 50.1%

Metrojet

Wrong. Can you dismiss a divorce settlement? No, no you can't. Same with the NIC AWARD. It will follow you. Enjoy it.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

redflyer65

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Wrong. Can you dismiss a divorce settlement? No, no you can't. Same with the NIC AWARD. It will follow you. Enjoy it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Maybe it would help if you spelled it right the first time....it's Nicolau Genital.
 

grog_sit_reserv

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My bet: It passes.

You know, it's funny; when the merger happened I was excited. I thought the US Air guys had had industry leading contracts in the past, maybe our group could learn something from them. Here's what we learned. You guys voted in LOA 93 on yourselves, you tried to disrupt the operation when we weren't even in negotiations (ending in an injunction), and generally do everything you can because you perceive the West as a bigger threat to you than the Effing management.

The inmates are running the asylum.
 

Carl S.

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All three PHX reps. voted no, but all eight East reps. voted yes to send this out? You East guys will jump at the first thing to get off LOA 93, what about your "GOLD STANDARD"......
 

vetrider

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This MOU sucks. For most west pilots, anything gained will be subsequently negated or worse with what sucks about the MOU. I think DP will have retroactively gotten himself some flexibility he doesn't have with the current transition agreement.

This deal if it happens will take awhile to put together, and in the meantime DP will enjoy his newfound flexibility and west pilots will suffer. That 10 grand won't even cover just what I figure I'll lose with the MOU, to say nothing of the last 7 years or so.
 
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LearLove

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Can you give us some examples of what they said?


Bye Bye---General Lee

First CA - "I don't care about this company, career or you. All I care about is me and I will retire in 3 years."

Said this guy at the end of a 3 day trip where he pissed off all 3 FA's before we even left the gate on day 1 - and he is married to an FA. And I had to apologize to the 2 NY jumpseaters for the way he behaved and treated them on day 2.
__________________________________________________________


Second CA - "the company offered 10K to give up scope protections"

ME - "well OK if you think I can live off 10K for the rest of my life or until I find a new career"

Second CA - "why is that"

ME - (we are parked on B concourse in PHL) "Look to your left, look to your right. What type of aircraft is that on both sides of us"

Second CA - "Republic RJ"

ME - "that is where my job will be along with about the bottom 20% of the AWA/AAA/AMR pilots' jobs"

Second CA - "well it must be important to the company if they are willing to pay each pilot 10K. Maybe we should ask for 50K each"

at this point I left the cockpit to do the walk around as I wasn't going to continue the conversation any further.

Note: I didn't start either of the conversations from above. And these 2 are not representative of any of the other CA's I've flown with on the 190 or 737 from 2008 to date (well except for one other but that guy was smart enough to shut his pie hole when he realized how junior I was and we still had guys on furlough). It has been kind of a shocking last 2 trips to encounter guys like this. I thought guys like this were all really senior 330 guys or retired by now.
 
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LearLove

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All three PHX reps. voted no, but all eight East reps. voted yes to send this out? You East guys will jump at the first thing to get off LOA 93, what about your "GOLD STANDARD"......

if your going to sling trash why don't you tell the whole story not just the part that makes your side look good.


"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED That the Board of Pilot Representatives recommends that the pilot group disapprove this MOU"
 

General Lee

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Maybe it would help if you spelled it right the first time....it's Nicolau Genital.

Did I misspell the NIC award? That's what it is called. Go eat your quesadilla in the bar at MAF you dork.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

surfnfly

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Let's hope that a NO vote from the membership will send a clearer message to Team Tempe that this MOU and $10K isn't gonna cut it than just having the BPR turn it down. Sadly as Lear pointed out we have plenty here all about themselves and will take an extra dime if they could on their way out at the expense of others.
 

Bringupthebird

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The US pilots are in a situation much more similar to what Frontier faced with Southwest that what APA faced with AA. Don't overestimate your ability to craft the outcome through emotional votes.

Nope, the only vote you can make, once you fully realize the irreparable harm done by USAPA, is YES. The east pilots are 100% to blame for all US pilots being in this weak position and should be reminded of it perpetually.
 

vetrider

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The US pilots are in a situation much more similar to what Frontier faced with Southwest that what APA faced with AA. Don't overestimate your ability to craft the outcome through emotional votes.

Nope, the only vote you can make, once you fully realize the irreparable harm done by USAPA, is YES. The east pilots are 100% to blame for all US pilots being in this weak position and should be reminded of it perpetually.

I'm under no illusion of getting another mou at all if it's voted down, much less a better one. I think status quo until we are wards of the APA(if this deal happens at all) is better for us.

Under this mou a certain percentage will get the good out of it without shooting themselves in the foot, not so for the rest of us. All this mou does is give LCC more flexibility, to our detriment, than it currently has.
 

Bringupthebird

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I'm under no illusion of getting another mou at all if it's voted down, much less a better one. I think status quo until we are wards of the APA(if this deal happens at all) is better for us.

Under this mou a certain percentage will get the good out of it without shooting themselves in the foot, not so for the rest of us. All this mou does is give LCC more flexibility, to our detriment, than it currently has.
So you'll trade the better of two lousy outcomes for a chance to pound your chest and say "See, we can vote No, too!"
 

Carl S.

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Let my Daddy vote, let my Daddy vote..... Is this why the East reps. let this turd out to vote with a no approval? CoC for 10k.... No Gold Standard of DOH as item number one???? Looks like money talks and the AFO club is losing their base....West is the swing vote and I am leaning towards no just so LOA 93 rates burn some more....Karma or something close to it.
 

fam62c

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If Parker wants a merger bad enough you should be able to get a no furlough agreement for all the groups. Also, it's not about 10K, the wage improvements should add up to a lot more than that. Get a new deal, get the merger done, put in fences so nobody goes backwards, sit back and watch the massive retirements at East and American move everybody up the list quickly. The other option is to just say no to everything forever and get nothing. If you do this you won't have to worry about scope, it will be other airlines that take your flying and put your company out of business, the best scope clause in the world can't stop your competitors because they don't have to play by your rules. The USAirways East pilots certainly know that by now.

If this merger is done correctly the combined carrier can be one of the powerhouses of the industry and provide a good future for the pilots. Realistically, given their hub structure and the competitive environment what kind of future does Airways have on it's own competing against giants?
 
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