Ipod's and the FAA

[flyf15]

You sound really uptight!! Could not imagine spending a whole month with you, wow!!!

I don't think I can imagine spending a whole month with you either.... enjoy getting violated, glad I won't be in the cockpit with you when it happens.

 

[kngarthur]

So what is the FAA/FAR's rule on Ipods while flying. I had an interesting discussion today with a captain that said they can't be used at all during flight. He couldn't say if it was a FAR but it got us thinking. I cant think of any FAR's that would limit its use above 10K? Is there any FAR that anybody can think of?

Ridiculous! What's next hair gel?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

I think the reading of company publications is allowed FOM, POH, MDM, FCTM, memorize the speed cards....

My airline has this same stupid policy. No reading except if it's a company publication.
I just don't think they want us to read anything remotely entertaining. The BS about not wanting us "distracted" is silly. Reading the FOM can cause a pilot to be just as distracted as reading a USA Today.
They just don't want us to be entertained.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I remember reading Tom Block's column in flying years ago when he was flying heavies across the pond for USAirways. As I recall, he would fire up whatever kind of music player they had then (pre-iPod to be sure) and hang some miniature speakers in the cockpit so he could listen to his favorite opera. I believe he solicited input from the FO as to his preferred choice of opera, but if the FO didn't like opera, well, Tom was the captain and that was that.

He'd also bring a novel/paperback per trip.
And I'm pretty sure he was older than 19.

When Len Morgan passed, I remember an anecdote his wife wrote. She was in the jumpseat on the 747 going to the Phillipines or some other far-flung pacific destination. Curious where they were, she leaned forward to ask Len, who was fast asleep. Same with the FO. Apparently one of them would wake up every now and then, adjust the heading bug, and go back to sleep.

In class we were told about a near miss (within 1 mile) involving two wide bodies. British Airways took evasive action to avoid hitting a US carrier's aircraft. The US crew had their charts out (blocking the sun) and reading materials in use and apparently were unaware of the near collision until contacted by Company. The aircraft together had somewhere north of 700 souls on board.

As for the IPOD, don't assume the other pilot can hear. Most of us that got our time flying general aviation aircraft and Garrett powered turboprops can not hear very well at all. At my carrier we have several pilots who are partly deaf, or deaf in one ear and some out flying with an exemption on their medicals.

It is not a brief item, so how would you know?

When my FO's pulled out PED's in flight I would humbly tell them I needed help to avoid missing calls and clearances and politely ask that they put them away, particularly when we were climbing, or descending. In cruise, I probably would not say anything, but oddly, FO's tended to pull these devices out on the ground and in the descent. That was when I needed the other crewmember the most.

 

[Flyer1015]

or deaf in one ear out flying with an exemption on their medicals.

Even if you are completely deaf in one ear, so as long as you can hear an average conversational voice from six fee away w/ back turned to examiner, then you pass the hearing test portion. That's one of the three listed methods to determine if you are ok in terms of hearing for the FAA 1st class medicals.

I know a pilot with one deaf ear (from birth, completely deaf ear), and yet he has a normal medical with no exemptions/restrictions/limitations.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Sec. 91.13

Careless or reckless operation.

(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

-----
Sec. 121.535

Responsibility for operational control: Flag operations.

(a) Each certificate holder conducting flag operations is responsible for operational control.
(d) Each pilot in command of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.
(e) Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers.
(f) No pilot may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger life or property.

The FAA does not define the terms wreckless, or careless. They will make up the definition to fit the situation. If there is an incident and somehow it is learned that a PED was on, the music will make the investigation more interesting than if everything was done by the book. Once an aircraft land with the parking brake set and there was music on the CVR. Obviously that was interesting.

As someone else pointed out, Company Ops Specs do have the same effect as FAR's. Some airlines have already prohibited these things and I imagine the other airlines will get on board since this is a monkey see, monkey do, business anyway.

 

[AC560]

91.21(c)
In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.

 

[HelloNewman]

Simple solution only read or use the ipod when there is no FAA person, check airmen, or even a regular guy in the jumpseat. What they don't know can't hurt them.

Even at my new job people read, listen to ipod/adf etc. For god sakes on a 4hr + flight you need something to stimulate your mind. Sitting and staring at the autopilot listening to ATC is mind numbing at best. It is safer to have an alert pilot who is reading than one that is day dreaming and spaced out.

 

[Rerouted]

CFI 121.33 Reads: I-Pods may not be used during any portion of flight unless accompanied by: a) Spikey Hair; b) Suitable Backpack. There you have it, the FAA has spoken.

 

[Rip Vanwinkle]

I can't think of any freight dogs I know who DON'T have at lest an ipod on during all phases of flight. And they're the ONLY PILOT! With NO autopilot! No wonder they're falling from the sky faster than a Riddle Ace's ego!

Seriously, if you can't adjust the volume on an mp3 player such that you can hear the high-tech crystal clear radios in the whisper-quiet cabin of your barbie jet, maybe you need to find a job with fewer buttons and knobs.

 

[CutEmUp]

I can't think of any freight dogs I know who DON'T have at lest an ipod on during all phases of flight. And they're the ONLY PILOT! With NO autopilot! No wonder they're falling from the sky faster than a Riddle Ace's ego!

So, are you kind enough to tell these freight dogs that you know to turn off thier ipods because this will cause them to fall from the sky?

 

[G2T]

CFI 121.33 Reads: I-Pods may not be used during any portion of flight unless accompanied by: a) Spikey Hair; b) Suitable Backpack. There you have it, the FAA has spoken.

I'm surprised there isn't a Flight Info regulation requiring backpacks, spikey hair, ipods, or gojet to be mentioned in EVERY thread before proceeding to the second page. This is getting ridiculous, these things get discussed in multiple threads every day.uke:

As a potential pilot of the other aircraft you're about to have a mid-air with because you have to listen to Green Day while in cruise, I'd like to ask you stop doing this. I'm sure your passengers would appreciate it too...

I don't like listening to Green Day when I fly, keeps me too on edge. I'm more of a Miles Davis kind of guy.

 

[Rerouted]

Yup. So it goes my boy.

 

[wms]

I think you just have to be smart about it...
...I think if guys would be a little more discreet and use some common sense, this wouldn't be an issue.

Did you mean smart about it, or sneaky?

Maybe you can just go tell the chief pilot your captain won't let you listen to your music.

 

[acaTerry]

It's going to take an accident...

 

[say again]

An extremely important part of BOTH pilots duty is to listen to, correctly hear, and respond to radio calls. Even if you're not the pilot on the radios and are just sitting there, how do you know that your other pilot just heard that radio call correctly? How do you verify, when acting upon the ATC instruction, that you're doing the right thing if you can't guarantee both of you heard the correct instruction? All it takes is ONE incorrect interpretation, one incorrectly heard number, etc to get a violation on your record. Pilot deviations are hard enough to avoid when you're doing things right, much more when you've got an Ipod playing into your headset.

As a potential pilot of the other aircraft you're about to have a mid-air with because you have to listen to Green Day while in cruise, I'd like to ask you stop doing this. I'm sure your passengers would appreciate it too...

And for those of you who do it secretly so that the other crew member does not know you're doing it, you can know that for sure if I fly with you and catch you doing it, I'll be making a call to pro standards the second we land. I'm not going to put my career or safety in the jeopardy because of your unprofessionalism.

U cant be serious!?! And if u are, I feel sorry for ya.
I listen to my tunes and do a dam good job of replying to ATC and doing my other duties (monitoring instruments). If something is to happen, earphones can easily be removed!!!

 

[WWEfan]

I listen to tunes from the time we release the brake until we set it again. Never had a problem.

 

[flying4food]

An extremely important part of BOTH pilots duty is to listen to, correctly hear, and respond to radio calls. Even if you're not the pilot on the radios and are just sitting there, how do you know that your other pilot just heard that radio call correctly? How do you verify, when acting upon the ATC instruction, that you're doing the right thing if you can't guarantee both of you heard the correct instruction? All it takes is ONE incorrect interpretation, one incorrectly heard number, etc to get a violation on your record. Pilot deviations are hard enough to avoid when you're doing things right, much more when you've got an Ipod playing into your headset.

As a potential pilot of the other aircraft you're about to have a mid-air with because you have to listen to Green Day while in cruise, I'd like to ask you stop doing this. I'm sure your passengers would appreciate it too...

And for those of you who do it secretly so that the other crew member does not know you're doing it, you can know that for sure if I fly with you and catch you doing it, I'll be making a call to pro standards the second we land. I'm not going to put my career or safety in the jeopardy because of your unprofessionalism.

what a tool, or I mean fool. So do you tattle on everything you see? So if I'm not wearing my hat, will you turn me in to Pro Standards? If I forget to turn my phone off, and do so while I'm taxiing, will you turn me in?? Will you turn me in for making a please remain seated announcement while rolling towards the gate, (waiting for the rampers?)

You must be very popular at your current company. Do us a favor and stay there! This industry is getting worse everyday, management is doing a great job at that. We don't need worthless tools like you making thing's worse.

 

[say again]

An extremely important part of BOTH pilots duty is to listen to, correctly hear, and respond to radio calls. Even if you're not the pilot on the radios and are just sitting there, how do you know that your other pilot just heard that radio call correctly? How do you verify, when acting upon the ATC instruction, that you're doing the right thing if you can't guarantee both of you heard the correct instruction? All it takes is ONE incorrect interpretation, one incorrectly heard number, etc to get a violation on your record. Pilot deviations are hard enough to avoid when you're doing things right, much more when you've got an Ipod playing into your headset.

As a potential pilot of the other aircraft you're about to have a mid-air with because you have to listen to Green Day while in cruise, I'd like to ask you stop doing this. I'm sure your passengers would appreciate it too...

And for those of you who do it secretly so that the other crew member does not know you're doing it, you can know that for sure if I fly with you and catch you doing it, I'll be making a call to pro standards the second we land. I'm not going to put my career or safety in the jeopardy because of your unprofessionalism.

I think we found Captain Dipsh!t. Welcome aboard you lame POS!! Oh wait, that's not proper terminology, turn me in to pro standards!! I deserve it u jacka$$!!!

Some people just need relax and enjoy their job, instead of being the scrooge of the industry!!!

 

[Axel]

There is a whole generation of parents that needs to be slapped